Onderwerp: Brexit

That downgrade from a triple A to a double A for Britain has a lot more implications than meets the eye.

"JózefKremówka do jasiom22, 18-24 Stupid people." - not true.

More like, old (out of touch?) and uneducated... make the pound plummet, - facts.
...and more repercussions are yet to come, too many people bought this populistic euro-sceptic crap, and all will pay. Business has nothing to do with sovereignty.

have a look a the education and ABC1


Pound is heading down... towards the Euro. (oh, what paradox... that everyone was warned about, I thought the idea behind BrExit, was to achieve the opposite) ...and US Dollar wins! the lot (globally). Rubel went up also.



good video in context about the possible repercussions...



Leaving the EU’s Single Market would be a 'one way ticket to a poorer Britain', warns Chancellor (George Osborne)
From: HM Treasury First published: 16 May 2016 Part of:EU referendum
Chancellor joins Sir Vince Cable and Ed Balls to warn that leaving the EU’s Single Market would be a 'one way ticket to a poorer Britain'.
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Jean-Claude Juncker's most outrageous political quotations

Posting facts won't help. Like what is happening right now. Housing prices will drop, another crisis for the UK if the Brexit goes on (but mos probably non of the UK politicians want to take that responsibility). Great idea that Brexit based on anti EU lies ....

Want to know the numbers, Bloomberg gives a lot of info about currency, price dropping, future markets, Asian behavior with dropping prices, value of metals.

For those who 'feel' leaving the EU is the better choice, reality shows a really different story. But keep fooling yourself like the populists in Europe also do, but keep the lying to yourself.


EDIT: http://www.bloomberg.com/europe
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Actually shows it all...
Don't believe in what EU-staff tell you... They'll do all they can to safeguard their top income (much more than they would earn in their home country!).

Where there's no transparancy (f.ex TTIP negociated by only 3 persons, that are inaccessible for anyone outside the parlament!?!?), there can be no democracy.

Did Bloomberg see the subprime-crisis come?
The price drop seems to be only a temporary pressure against the U.K. citizens. I really doubt they'll last long.

Anti-EU lies according to whom?
Is it a lie, that the EU isn't democratic?
Is it a lie, that Greece isn't doing better?
Is it a lie, that poverty is progressing all over the EU-Zone?

The EU only really benefits the big international companies, who are pressing to have the TTIP passed as quickly as possible, no matter the consequences for the average "EU-citizen" (a rather contradictory formula, as a citizen should be able to actively participate, and not only be asked his opinion without any incidence on the political life of the EU).

London stock exchange recovered.
Gilt at lower level.
Pound devalutation stopped at the same levels analists told before the whole brexit thing.
Uk economy forecast are on plus sign.


Where are the facts we are ignoring?

Nowhere, if you look close enough. Most informations are available for anyone, if they take some time to search and analyze them.

I wasn't critisizing you.
I also think Jean-Claude Juncker's an *******... ;-)

Still, this is the guy who promoted brexit. Prototype of the smart politicians nowadays not doing any research :)



also, wtf is this guy doing there, shouldn't he be like 'prepare' brexit? Or are they all too afraid to take the responsibility?

Well, you should not forget the "Most" with which he begins his statement.
This statement might still be correct. Many politician nowadays study political science or economics, afterwards they enter in politics. I don't like it either. Pretty bad to have politician that have never really worked tell you what would be the best for you... That really sucks.

But don't forget, it's mostly thanks to Farage that Cameron promised the vote for Brexit.
I find his tirades pretty good. I do not agree with all that he says, but he helped to show how incompetent many EU politician are...

Pretty bad to have politician that have never really worked tell you what would be the best for you

I don't see a problem as long as he's properly educated in a field that makes him competent in his field of politics.

In what way does being a surgeon, teacher etc. prepare you to be a good, competent politic?

Politics should be a close cooperation between educated politics and life/work/field-experienced experts, such as surgeons, teachers etc.

Also, when you actually ARE a good politic who takes his job seriously, then it is NOT an easy job.
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Here I agree with you.
On the other side there's a big problem with "professional" politicians. They HAVE TO be reelected.

I think that the best answer is (again) democracy: free and fair information, citizen with rights, rules to and for politics, elections and referendums.

Referendums are idiotic in my opinion. They usually concern complicated issues, where you need to have a real understanding of the subject and such people should make the decision. Not people who can barely multiply 5x9 and have vaque ideas about economics etc.

Imo citizens should have rights...to HAVE rights...but they have to deserve to get them, by having basic political, economical etc. knowledge. Giving everyone the right to vote by default is simply stupid.

Everyone knows stupid people. Think of 2 that you know of. Now think that they have higher influence on your future and future of your country than you actually have. Does that make sense for you?

I disagree.
the fact people are too ignorant to understand is a demonstration of a lack of prerequisites of democracy (education and information). But this does not show any evidence of making worst or better decisions.

Imo citizens should have rights...to HAVE rights...but they have to deserve to get them, by having basic political, economical etc. knowledge. Giving everyone the right to vote by default is simply stupid.

Here you make a semplification: ignorants and stupids make bad decision.
Educated and intelligent make good decision.
That's not true. Not always. In reality decision making is a process that follows other rules. In most cases professional decisors are going to follow different goals from 'people' so you can't compare results!!!

And then there's the history check. Ignorants voted Hitler, but also Churchill.

Over all this.. there's the propaganda problem. For example, the story of UK electors asking google "what's EU?" now that the news is gone.. they tell the number of those reseaches was around 1k...
so.. ?
so the fact ignorants get the first pages does not mean they are representative of the reality of people!

Everyone knows stupid people. Think of 2 that you know of. Now think that they have higher influence on your future and future of your country than you actually have. Does that make sense for you?

Yes, this is necessary! If someone live beside me, his influence to me is unavoidable.
And in any case I prefer them deciding with me than having to accept the decision of a far burocracy of strangers (talking foregin languages, far from my control and with different goals than me and my neighbour).


The real question is always the same.
Do you believe democracy as a principle?

if yes. that's it, not perfect but running!
if not. describe you ideal system and prove it is better!
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the fact people are too ignorant to understand is a demonstration of a lack of prerequisites of democracy (education and information). But this does not show any evidence of making worst or better decisions.

No, it's not about education and information. People have EXTREME access to information and education nowadays. If they're uneducated and uninformed, then it's THEIR fault, not the systems.

I remember going to school. I saw lots of stupid people, who didn't WANT to learn. Why am I edcuated and informed years later and they aren't? Because they didn't care and still don't care about it. We went to same school, had same teachers and books. Don't blame the system.

Here you make a semplification: ignorants and stupids make bad decision.
Educated and intelligent make good decision.
That's not true. Not always. In reality decision making is a process that follows other rules. In most cases professional decisors are going to follow different goals from 'people' so you can't compare results!!!

I'm not saying good/bad decisions. I'm saying that educated and informed people are far better mentally equipped to make a choice and are far less susceptible to propaganda and especially socialist propaganda [We will give you x, y, z, just vote for us -> oh, sorry... no money for that, maybe next time].

Yes, this is necessary! If someone live beside me, his influence to me is unavoidable.
And in any case I prefer them deciding with me than having to accept the decision of a far burocracy of strangers (talking foregin languages, far from my control and with different goals than me and my neighbour).

If you think that 2 idiots should decide about your life more than you can, then it's your choice. I disagree with that. I disagree with the fact that a total imbecile who spends his life on drinking has as much of a voice as a distinguished professor of economics.

The real question is always the same.
Do you believe democracy as a principle?

No. I never believed it. I believe in controlled democracy, where you have to earn your right to vote. For example by completing a simple ABCD test about politics, economics etc. I'm fairly sure ~10% would fail to pass it.

I believe in controlled democracy, where you have to earn your right to vote.

I'd love that. But will never happen. In my country, 90% would not pass that test.