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Topic gesloten!!!
Onderwerp: Brexit
average montly income
the amount of money spent on roads/railways
before joining EU Poland had ~200km of so called express roads
now there are ~1300km of them
before EU we had ~400km of highways, no we have ~1600km
not to mention, the new roads are of much higher quality
just some examples
the amount of money spent on roads/railways
before joining EU Poland had ~200km of so called express roads
now there are ~1300km of them
before EU we had ~400km of highways, no we have ~1600km
not to mention, the new roads are of much higher quality
just some examples
bla bla was not to you but to the one who doesn't post a damn thing on Sokker other then anti EU and colony nonsense and anti me in all kind of topics for many years now, that's a fact! If you don't know this then don't talk about it or ask why instead of making claims you know nothing about.
EDIT: And if you want to blame people for being personal, read back this and other topics and blame the annoying italian and greek kids for their behavior.
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EDIT: And if you want to blame people for being personal, read back this and other topics and blame the annoying italian and greek kids for their behavior.
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EU facts and fiction for UK:
As I already posted: NUANCES! It's not black or white, often and even most of the times it is gray.
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As I already posted: NUANCES! It's not black or white, often and even most of the times it is gray.
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To your first video ("Fact Check | Say No To Vote Leave's Lies | 3 Myths Debunked"):
1. 121 Mio £ expenses per week (i.e. over 500 Mio £ a month or more than 6 Billion £ a year).
Not including the EU-exclusive trade.
Let's look at the import vs export in the last 2 years:
Pretty amazing, looks pretty even. And that's thanks to EU-exclusive trade...
As you can read in this article, UK import slightly more from the EU than from non EU, but exports more to non-EU than to EU-members.
That's a hell of a EU-exclusive trade bonus!!!
2. Being more (or not less) democratic than the UK doesn't make the EU democratic. Why not compare the EU with Switzerland, which is a really democratic country.
No changes can be made to the constitution without a referendum. All important laws have to be accepted by the people first.
The abstention is much lower than for EU-parliament-elections.
You can see on this article how high it was in the last election in 2014. 42.5% overall, even under 20% in some countries. That would be unthinkable in Switzerland!
But well who cares about the elections of representants, who are only allowed to see the complete negociations protocoles of the TTIP if they:
- look at the protocoles in an absolutly isolated room alone,
- leave all their electronical devices outside,
- take notes without citing directly what is written in it,
- sign a contract, stating that they are not allowed to reveal anything that stands in the protocoles to anybody.
Who negociates the TTIP? The EU Trade Commissioner (yes, he's not elected) and the United States Trade Representative (see here for source), meaning the decisions on the negociation of this treaty remains on them (the elected representants only ratify them).
Well of course, it has a bit changed now, parts of it have come to the press, and the ressemblance to the MAI-negociations in the 90s (MAI stands for Multilateral Agreement on Investment) doesn't really bring popular support.
The TTIP as well as the rejected MAI give the international companies the right to juridically attack a country according to US-right, if this one is preventing him from making profit (e.g. with a law for the protect the environment). There's a similar mechanism with the ALENA (free trade in northern america), Canada has not even won one of the more than 40 processes against it...
3. Come on, Turkey in the EU? That's ridiculous. Nothing against their politics or people, but only a tiny part is culturally close to the european cultures... In Turkey, it's dangerous to be a journalist (afaik, the country with the most journalists in jail...)
But you'll notice, the negociation for Turkey's entry are still going on... What a waste of time and money (according to the video you posted).
Bonus assertion: "Guaranteed workers' right"
The El Khomri law in France was obviously written by an EU-comissioner (or at least judged as good by the EU). This law restricts the worker's rights even more...
What about the raising unemployment (espescially for those who consume more: young people), the growing debts of even those who are doing less worse (or better according to you and borkos007), the immigration-bogus (with already growing unemployment absolutly idiotic), the agony of small and medium-sized enterprises throughout the EU (the only ones benefiting from the actual situation being the international companies, but they create much less jobs), and so on.
My conclusion about this video: propaganda!
It's not difficult to discover, if you take some time searching the web...
As for your second video, I'm a bit tired, and having already a bit headache, I'll watch it tomorrow. I've had enough propaganda for one day... :P
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1. 121 Mio £ expenses per week (i.e. over 500 Mio £ a month or more than 6 Billion £ a year).
Not including the EU-exclusive trade.
Let's look at the import vs export in the last 2 years:
Pretty amazing, looks pretty even. And that's thanks to EU-exclusive trade...
As you can read in this article, UK import slightly more from the EU than from non EU, but exports more to non-EU than to EU-members.
That's a hell of a EU-exclusive trade bonus!!!
2. Being more (or not less) democratic than the UK doesn't make the EU democratic. Why not compare the EU with Switzerland, which is a really democratic country.
No changes can be made to the constitution without a referendum. All important laws have to be accepted by the people first.
The abstention is much lower than for EU-parliament-elections.
You can see on this article how high it was in the last election in 2014. 42.5% overall, even under 20% in some countries. That would be unthinkable in Switzerland!
But well who cares about the elections of representants, who are only allowed to see the complete negociations protocoles of the TTIP if they:
- look at the protocoles in an absolutly isolated room alone,
- leave all their electronical devices outside,
- take notes without citing directly what is written in it,
- sign a contract, stating that they are not allowed to reveal anything that stands in the protocoles to anybody.
Who negociates the TTIP? The EU Trade Commissioner (yes, he's not elected) and the United States Trade Representative (see here for source), meaning the decisions on the negociation of this treaty remains on them (the elected representants only ratify them).
Well of course, it has a bit changed now, parts of it have come to the press, and the ressemblance to the MAI-negociations in the 90s (MAI stands for Multilateral Agreement on Investment) doesn't really bring popular support.
The TTIP as well as the rejected MAI give the international companies the right to juridically attack a country according to US-right, if this one is preventing him from making profit (e.g. with a law for the protect the environment). There's a similar mechanism with the ALENA (free trade in northern america), Canada has not even won one of the more than 40 processes against it...
3. Come on, Turkey in the EU? That's ridiculous. Nothing against their politics or people, but only a tiny part is culturally close to the european cultures... In Turkey, it's dangerous to be a journalist (afaik, the country with the most journalists in jail...)
But you'll notice, the negociation for Turkey's entry are still going on... What a waste of time and money (according to the video you posted).
Bonus assertion: "Guaranteed workers' right"
The El Khomri law in France was obviously written by an EU-comissioner (or at least judged as good by the EU). This law restricts the worker's rights even more...
What about the raising unemployment (espescially for those who consume more: young people), the growing debts of even those who are doing less worse (or better according to you and borkos007), the immigration-bogus (with already growing unemployment absolutly idiotic), the agony of small and medium-sized enterprises throughout the EU (the only ones benefiting from the actual situation being the international companies, but they create much less jobs), and so on.
My conclusion about this video: propaganda!
It's not difficult to discover, if you take some time searching the web...
As for your second video, I'm a bit tired, and having already a bit headache, I'll watch it tomorrow. I've had enough propaganda for one day... :P
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I doubt el pupe knew the situation of Poland 10 years ago, I doubt he knows it today. Poland improved massively in last decade.
well apart what I know of each country... (nobody can know details of everywhere!!! that's obvious)
The fundamental laws of economics, the relation between a trade surplus and a trade deficit, the relation between private and public debt in time, the effect of a financial unified market or of a single currency market.. ARE THE SAME!!! :D
All those things are well known from a lot of times (but should be studied on books, not heared in tv or newspaper), so you just have to apply them to any single situation and you'll easily find out what is happening.
About poland, I live in a part of Italy where a lot of entrepreneurs leaved to came to poland because of the fabolous taxation rate and facilitation, we have a lot of services for them working and for example we are seeing a enormous increase of luxury cars with poland license plate on the streets.. (i guess you know why!)
If one works as professionist in economic plannings, stats etc is even more easy to understand what it's going on.
Anyway, poland is doing a good deal with EU right now, but I think you gov should try to do something on your economic addiction from EU with some sort of economic stronger relation with russia. Having a big friend is useful, having two is way better, if you know what I mean. You can play the game without having to..
well apart what I know of each country... (nobody can know details of everywhere!!! that's obvious)
The fundamental laws of economics, the relation between a trade surplus and a trade deficit, the relation between private and public debt in time, the effect of a financial unified market or of a single currency market.. ARE THE SAME!!! :D
All those things are well known from a lot of times (but should be studied on books, not heared in tv or newspaper), so you just have to apply them to any single situation and you'll easily find out what is happening.
About poland, I live in a part of Italy where a lot of entrepreneurs leaved to came to poland because of the fabolous taxation rate and facilitation, we have a lot of services for them working and for example we are seeing a enormous increase of luxury cars with poland license plate on the streets.. (i guess you know why!)
If one works as professionist in economic plannings, stats etc is even more easy to understand what it's going on.
Anyway, poland is doing a good deal with EU right now, but I think you gov should try to do something on your economic addiction from EU with some sort of economic stronger relation with russia. Having a big friend is useful, having two is way better, if you know what I mean. You can play the game without having to..
dear friend.
I warn you, when the arguments will end, you'll end up getting treated like I was.
Then anything will be done in order to impede a civil discussion (posting pages of links and videos to turn attention versus useless details, persona attacks, mod's public claims).
At the end odf it, any external reader will never be able to see the difference between arguments and simply won't read anymore.
It is really my fault, I'm not able to avoid to answer some time. But maybe you are stronger than me! ;D
about the first graph.
This graph shows why pound devalutated. Brexit has been the perfect exscuse for..
I warn you, when the arguments will end, you'll end up getting treated like I was.
Then anything will be done in order to impede a civil discussion (posting pages of links and videos to turn attention versus useless details, persona attacks, mod's public claims).
At the end odf it, any external reader will never be able to see the difference between arguments and simply won't read anymore.
It is really my fault, I'm not able to avoid to answer some time. But maybe you are stronger than me! ;D
about the first graph.
This graph shows why pound devalutated. Brexit has been the perfect exscuse for..
I think it is useful to remark that some people can't see anything wrong in trade surplus. And this is abig problem in understanding each other.
It's a kind of mentality I find sometimes in nordic people (maybe it comes someway from calvinism, idk) they can't see the fact that if a country export more than what import this necessarily implies the deficit of some other country.
Or for example, I find that, for some reason I can't explain, some people think debt is morally wrong, but credit is a good thing.. I find it amazing, aren't them two sides of the same coin???
It's a kind of mentality I find sometimes in nordic people (maybe it comes someway from calvinism, idk) they can't see the fact that if a country export more than what import this necessarily implies the deficit of some other country.
Or for example, I find that, for some reason I can't explain, some people think debt is morally wrong, but credit is a good thing.. I find it amazing, aren't them two sides of the same coin???
Last decade means "Before Sokker" and "After Sokker"
XD
Lots of improvements with Sokker :)
XD
Lots of improvements with Sokker :)
Thanks for your input. But pound-devaluation is rather a punishment against the people of Britain for voting Leave (= voting wrong for EU-establishment).
I also agree, that a trade surplus isn't not completly moral, it has indeed to do with calvinism. On the other side, when you're endebted like Britain, it seems morally ok (you need a way to reduce the debt, besides not planning a budget deficit).
Living on credit (and also in debt obviously) is pretty much the anglo-saxon way of life, exported to the new world (the USA). Credit and debt are also the same to me. In both cases you owe money to someone else...
It's also my fault, and I know that I might be treated like you in the end by some biggot unable to discuss correctly (i.e. in a logical and rational way with arguments). But I find it pretty amusing, that's why I can't resist answering too. ^_^
I do care about the answers to my post, but always watching videos is a bit disappointing. It rather shows an inability to put the own thoughts in written words...
P.S. I have to add that the true immorality of credit lies in the interest payments. Without interest payments, it would be morally acceptable. The catholic church always fought credit (=usury) as immoral. Usury is bad, when it comes at an extend like today. It's comparable to stealing. Stealing a part of a country's work (=wealth production) in the form of interest payments.
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I also agree, that a trade surplus isn't not completly moral, it has indeed to do with calvinism. On the other side, when you're endebted like Britain, it seems morally ok (you need a way to reduce the debt, besides not planning a budget deficit).
Living on credit (and also in debt obviously) is pretty much the anglo-saxon way of life, exported to the new world (the USA). Credit and debt are also the same to me. In both cases you owe money to someone else...
It's also my fault, and I know that I might be treated like you in the end by some biggot unable to discuss correctly (i.e. in a logical and rational way with arguments). But I find it pretty amusing, that's why I can't resist answering too. ^_^
I do care about the answers to my post, but always watching videos is a bit disappointing. It rather shows an inability to put the own thoughts in written words...
P.S. I have to add that the true immorality of credit lies in the interest payments. Without interest payments, it would be morally acceptable. The catholic church always fought credit (=usury) as immoral. Usury is bad, when it comes at an extend like today. It's comparable to stealing. Stealing a part of a country's work (=wealth production) in the form of interest payments.
(gewijzigd)
As I already posted: NUANCES! It's not black or white, often and even most of the times it is gray.
Don't write nonsense. Gray?
I agree that being manichean is being pretty short-sighted. But telling that the solution can only come from parts of both sides is also short sighted.
It totally closes down the possibility of a third way, independent of the first two. Please try to keep this in mind.
As for your other videos... I'm sorry, but having seen the first three with repetitions, I don't feel like wasting my time for the last three...
I could only point out an interesting fact.
New laws in the EU (concerning every member-state if they are ratified by the parliament) are written by EU-commissioner (which I pointed out myself earlier, said in the video "EU facts and fiction Pt.1"), meaning the new laws are written by non-elected people (EU-commissioner never are elected).
What about having the people of the EU votes about these new laws?
What? Oh sorry... That would be true democracy, the EU clearly made their point about it during the votes for EU-constitution: Vote whatever you want, the EU constitution will be adopted anyway. :-P
Don't write nonsense. Gray?
I agree that being manichean is being pretty short-sighted. But telling that the solution can only come from parts of both sides is also short sighted.
It totally closes down the possibility of a third way, independent of the first two. Please try to keep this in mind.
As for your other videos... I'm sorry, but having seen the first three with repetitions, I don't feel like wasting my time for the last three...
I could only point out an interesting fact.
New laws in the EU (concerning every member-state if they are ratified by the parliament) are written by EU-commissioner (which I pointed out myself earlier, said in the video "EU facts and fiction Pt.1"), meaning the new laws are written by non-elected people (EU-commissioner never are elected).
What about having the people of the EU votes about these new laws?
What? Oh sorry... That would be true democracy, the EU clearly made their point about it during the votes for EU-constitution: Vote whatever you want, the EU constitution will be adopted anyway. :-P
Who the F*** are you. Just signed up but talking about me and others like you 'know' them enough. What am I missing .... wait. hopefully not again an old troll who is back again with another name and country :S