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Onderwerp: Brexit
From what I see, your opinion is that people can steal from them/breach their copyright because they have a lot of money already.
Do you speak with a Russian accent? ;-P
Do you speak with a Russian accent? ;-P
hehe :P no Russian here
But no, I think copyright is not the ultimate right of businesses, and absolutely not a reason to lock people up for so many years. I don't agree with stealing, but sharing is something else and is not stealing.
Also, I think websites like TPB and KAT should not be a problem for large companies if they would be more creative in looking for ways to deal with these small websites. There are other ways as the capitalistic way of dealing with unwanted competition.
And no indeed, these websites don't make enough to make 1 good A rated movie. But torrentsites won't replace the cinema, looking at the profits of the movie industry, they are making more money instead of less, even with these torrentsites being popular. These torrent and stream websites could be added to the industry instead of being attacked by them.
But no, I think copyright is not the ultimate right of businesses, and absolutely not a reason to lock people up for so many years. I don't agree with stealing, but sharing is something else and is not stealing.
Also, I think websites like TPB and KAT should not be a problem for large companies if they would be more creative in looking for ways to deal with these small websites. There are other ways as the capitalistic way of dealing with unwanted competition.
And no indeed, these websites don't make enough to make 1 good A rated movie. But torrentsites won't replace the cinema, looking at the profits of the movie industry, they are making more money instead of less, even with these torrentsites being popular. These torrent and stream websites could be added to the industry instead of being attacked by them.
About Polanski: that's bs!
He was arrested in Switzerland a few years ago, and wasn't extraded to the USA (even though swiss justice contacted their US-counterparts)...
About US-right: so you want US-right to be applied all the time in your country, even if it's against Poland's constitution or own laws?
As for copyrights, they ran out of ideas some time ago. That why they keep copying the same patterns (e.g. romantic comedies), making remakes (Ghostbusters, True Grit, etc), planning sequels (e.g. Star Trek), rebooting film series (e.g. Spiderman, Star Trek). Nothing original in there, they are pretty much stealing on the people attending cinema... :-S
Of course, there can still be original ideas. I liked the short serie "True Detective", which is refreshing compared to the rest...
But the overwhelming majority is awful, average to the best...
He was arrested in Switzerland a few years ago, and wasn't extraded to the USA (even though swiss justice contacted their US-counterparts)...
About US-right: so you want US-right to be applied all the time in your country, even if it's against Poland's constitution or own laws?
As for copyrights, they ran out of ideas some time ago. That why they keep copying the same patterns (e.g. romantic comedies), making remakes (Ghostbusters, True Grit, etc), planning sequels (e.g. Star Trek), rebooting film series (e.g. Spiderman, Star Trek). Nothing original in there, they are pretty much stealing on the people attending cinema... :-S
Of course, there can still be original ideas. I liked the short serie "True Detective", which is refreshing compared to the rest...
But the overwhelming majority is awful, average to the best...
First: what this has to do with brexit?
Second:
I agree with you that laws say this, so this has to be done.
And I agree with Charles and manhill, that this is unfair.
but not because someone gets more money than someone else. I think money making isn't a crime.
I think it's unfair, and produce damages the idea that someone can have the property of and idea, or an information.
My opinion is that who invent (write, play etc) something that can be reproduced as an information (a file, a book, a draw, a song, a movie, an industrial TM etc) must be recognized for authorship, not for property.
Because I think information (any kind of..) must be free from any kind of rule and control.
I think it produce some price to pay (reality show there are no free rides!!!) but it would be better than now.
Second:
I agree with you that laws say this, so this has to be done.
And I agree with Charles and manhill, that this is unfair.
but not because someone gets more money than someone else. I think money making isn't a crime.
I think it's unfair, and produce damages the idea that someone can have the property of and idea, or an information.
My opinion is that who invent (write, play etc) something that can be reproduced as an information (a file, a book, a draw, a song, a movie, an industrial TM etc) must be recognized for authorship, not for property.
Because I think information (any kind of..) must be free from any kind of rule and control.
I think it produce some price to pay (reality show there are no free rides!!!) but it would be better than now.
So, el-pupe, Charles, manhill:
if you spend 1.5 year writing a book, you publish it...
...and then I buy your book, copy it and sell it myself for 50% of the price...
...then everything is ok? :-)
if you spend 1.5 year writing a book, you publish it...
...and then I buy your book, copy it and sell it myself for 50% of the price...
...then everything is ok? :-)
I never pay for torrents or steams. For as far as I know, they only make money by commercials like other websites. Sokker also makes money with banners, many websites do that. So there is no 50% of the price.
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About Polanski: that's bs!
He was arrested in Switzerland a few years ago, and wasn't extraded to the USA (even though swiss justice contacted their US-counterparts)...
Does Switzerland have extradition contract with US? Because as far as I know Poland has :-)
About US-right: so you want US-right to be applied all the time in your country, even if it's against Poland's constitution or own laws?
The US-right was not applied in Poland. But due to the agreements between US and Poland, he was sent to US because of being persecuted by the US. It's not very complicated.
As for copyrights, they ran out of ideas some time ago. That why they keep copying the same patterns (e.g. romantic comedies), making remakes (Ghostbusters, True Grit, etc), planning sequels (e.g. Star Trek), rebooting film series (e.g. Spiderman, Star Trek). Nothing original in there, they are pretty much stealing on the people attending cinema... :-S
It doesn't matter if they are original or not. People still want to watch the movies and they still have the right to make profits from their WORK.
@Charles
Also, I think websites like TPB and KAT should not be a problem for large companies if they would be more creative in looking for ways to deal with these small websites. There are other ways as the capitalistic way of dealing with unwanted competition.
Are you serious? Torrent sites are NOT competition. They don't produce anything by themselves. They just leech on the work others did and make profit.
He was arrested in Switzerland a few years ago, and wasn't extraded to the USA (even though swiss justice contacted their US-counterparts)...
Does Switzerland have extradition contract with US? Because as far as I know Poland has :-)
About US-right: so you want US-right to be applied all the time in your country, even if it's against Poland's constitution or own laws?
The US-right was not applied in Poland. But due to the agreements between US and Poland, he was sent to US because of being persecuted by the US. It's not very complicated.
As for copyrights, they ran out of ideas some time ago. That why they keep copying the same patterns (e.g. romantic comedies), making remakes (Ghostbusters, True Grit, etc), planning sequels (e.g. Star Trek), rebooting film series (e.g. Spiderman, Star Trek). Nothing original in there, they are pretty much stealing on the people attending cinema... :-S
It doesn't matter if they are original or not. People still want to watch the movies and they still have the right to make profits from their WORK.
@Charles
Also, I think websites like TPB and KAT should not be a problem for large companies if they would be more creative in looking for ways to deal with these small websites. There are other ways as the capitalistic way of dealing with unwanted competition.
Are you serious? Torrent sites are NOT competition. They don't produce anything by themselves. They just leech on the work others did and make profit.
I never pay for torrents or steams. For as far as I know, they only make money by commercials like other websites. Sokker also makes money with banners, many websites do that.
So what? Sokker makes money on THEIR work/product. Torrent sites/streams make money on the work/product of OTHERS.
But ok, new example especially for you.
You write a book, you publish it, I copy it with 100% and give it for free to people, making money on a couple of ads I added inside the book.
That would be ok with you, yes? :)
So what? Sokker makes money on THEIR work/product. Torrent sites/streams make money on the work/product of OTHERS.
But ok, new example especially for you.
You write a book, you publish it, I copy it with 100% and give it for free to people, making money on a couple of ads I added inside the book.
That would be ok with you, yes? :)
This will also answer your latest post I think :)
So cooking websites with recipes are also criminal websites if some writers wrote recipes in a book that are posted on these websites by visitors? DJ's mix websites are criminals because the DJ's upload their live sets to websites that others can listen to or even download, songs made by others, not by the DJ's who only use these songs? Etc.
Again, for me sharing and stealing is something else. No one on torrent and stream sites claim to have made these movies, not one claims to be the new owners.
And yes, they are competition. But not because they made the movies, but because these websites offer an alternative for watching movies. Just as you don't have to buy a cooking book to find new recipes.
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So cooking websites with recipes are also criminal websites if some writers wrote recipes in a book that are posted on these websites by visitors? DJ's mix websites are criminals because the DJ's upload their live sets to websites that others can listen to or even download, songs made by others, not by the DJ's who only use these songs? Etc.
Again, for me sharing and stealing is something else. No one on torrent and stream sites claim to have made these movies, not one claims to be the new owners.
And yes, they are competition. But not because they made the movies, but because these websites offer an alternative for watching movies. Just as you don't have to buy a cooking book to find new recipes.
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Charles, I asked you a simple question with a simple situation. Please respond directly to that.
Would copying your book and giving it out for free (with added ads that won't go to your pocket) be fine with you.
Would copying your book and giving it out for free (with added ads that won't go to your pocket) be fine with you.
I answered your other comment Are you serious? Torrent sites are NOT competition. They don't produce anything by themselves. They just leech on the work others did and make profit. If you want all your posts answered, please give me a chance to answer before you do more posts ;)
And no, I wouldn't like it if my book would be copied and given for free. But I have no idea how much I would make on those who will buy the book, because that's a part you ignore, the part people also make money by selling their work. And also not mentioned by you, if my book would make me more famous but make less money, part 2 could make a lot more money because many more people will have read it because it was for free. Besides, to own the original version is very important for many people, or else no one would by books, movies, games, music anymore.
EDIT: a bit more difficult for books, but if you look at music. Songs can be copied and spread for free, a live show can't. Artists can make a lot of money with live show. People will come to these shows because they like the songs, songs they listen to by radio, tv, internet, often all for free. But then they pay for a ticket because an experience of a live show can't be downloaded for free.
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And no, I wouldn't like it if my book would be copied and given for free. But I have no idea how much I would make on those who will buy the book, because that's a part you ignore, the part people also make money by selling their work. And also not mentioned by you, if my book would make me more famous but make less money, part 2 could make a lot more money because many more people will have read it because it was for free. Besides, to own the original version is very important for many people, or else no one would by books, movies, games, music anymore.
EDIT: a bit more difficult for books, but if you look at music. Songs can be copied and spread for free, a live show can't. Artists can make a lot of money with live show. People will come to these shows because they like the songs, songs they listen to by radio, tv, internet, often all for free. But then they pay for a ticket because an experience of a live show can't be downloaded for free.
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But I have no idea how much I would make on those who will buy the book, because that's a part you ignore, the part people also make money by selling their work.
What difference does it make how much money you would make?
If you get 1000€, you get 1000€ for your WORK and TIME devoted to writing the book.
If you get 100 000€, you get 100 000€ for your WORK and TIME devoted to writing the book.
What's the difference? The amount of money shows only the quality of your work and demand for it.
And also not mentioned by you, if my book would make me more famous but make less money, part 2 could make a lot more money because many more people will have read it because it was for free.
Or - more likely - they would get the 2nd book also for free, the same way they got your first book.
Or you wouldn't even make the 2nd book, because the first wouldn't be profitable enough for you to continue.
To get the original is very important for many people, or else no one would by books, movies, games, music anymore.
Perhaps people simply value the fact that someone made a lot of effort to create the book, movie, game etc. and understand that it is wrong to get it for free?
As for the music/book difference - doesn't matter when we talk about intellectual property and that's what we're talking about.
Btw. it's funny how you mistake means of leisure with right to information.
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What difference does it make how much money you would make?
If you get 1000€, you get 1000€ for your WORK and TIME devoted to writing the book.
If you get 100 000€, you get 100 000€ for your WORK and TIME devoted to writing the book.
What's the difference? The amount of money shows only the quality of your work and demand for it.
And also not mentioned by you, if my book would make me more famous but make less money, part 2 could make a lot more money because many more people will have read it because it was for free.
Or - more likely - they would get the 2nd book also for free, the same way they got your first book.
Or you wouldn't even make the 2nd book, because the first wouldn't be profitable enough for you to continue.
To get the original is very important for many people, or else no one would by books, movies, games, music anymore.
Perhaps people simply value the fact that someone made a lot of effort to create the book, movie, game etc. and understand that it is wrong to get it for free?
As for the music/book difference - doesn't matter when we talk about intellectual property and that's what we're talking about.
Btw. it's funny how you mistake means of leisure with right to information.
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So, el-pupe, Charles, manhill:
if you spend 1.5 year writing a book, you publish it...
...and then I buy your book, copy it and sell it myself for 50% of the price...
...then everything is ok? :-)
yes!
if you spend 1.5 year writing a book, you publish it...
...and then I buy your book, copy it and sell it myself for 50% of the price...
...then everything is ok? :-)
yes!
What difference does it make how much money you would make?
Indeed, what is someone's artistic work worth, but also the question is why does someone make it? For others I think.
What's the difference? The amount of money shows only the quality of your work and demand for it.
So we agree money is a way to measure quality. And I think quality will be bought. I can't get the same experience of movies watching these on my big screen at home as I will get in a cinema with all surround and sometimes 3D. TS quality online is so low quality I won't watch it. So I make the decision, will I go to the cinema to get the full experience and see it asap or do I wait for a watchable version on torrent or steam websites, often many weeks or months after cinema? It's not that I won't go to the cinema anymore, I only go to watch movies I think are special, as I always have done.
And for the books, your way of looking at it is also a way to look at it. For now movies and games are making more money each year, so there is no indication the original versions are not bought anymore.
Perhaps people simply value the fact that someone made a lot of effort to create the book, movie, game etc. and understand that it is wrong to get it for free?
You see, if you think torrent and stream sites are wrong, you and I won't agree on this subject:)
EDIT: I don't rent movies anymore, that's true. But I also don't buy books anymore because my girlfriend gets her books from 'free mini libraries' near the streets. See is also not a criminal, but she shares her books and get books all for free. These books are bought once and after that shared for free, the only difference is it's not online but on the streets.
https://littlefreelibrary.org/
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Indeed, what is someone's artistic work worth, but also the question is why does someone make it? For others I think.
What's the difference? The amount of money shows only the quality of your work and demand for it.
So we agree money is a way to measure quality. And I think quality will be bought. I can't get the same experience of movies watching these on my big screen at home as I will get in a cinema with all surround and sometimes 3D. TS quality online is so low quality I won't watch it. So I make the decision, will I go to the cinema to get the full experience and see it asap or do I wait for a watchable version on torrent or steam websites, often many weeks or months after cinema? It's not that I won't go to the cinema anymore, I only go to watch movies I think are special, as I always have done.
And for the books, your way of looking at it is also a way to look at it. For now movies and games are making more money each year, so there is no indication the original versions are not bought anymore.
Perhaps people simply value the fact that someone made a lot of effort to create the book, movie, game etc. and understand that it is wrong to get it for free?
You see, if you think torrent and stream sites are wrong, you and I won't agree on this subject:)
EDIT: I don't rent movies anymore, that's true. But I also don't buy books anymore because my girlfriend gets her books from 'free mini libraries' near the streets. See is also not a criminal, but she shares her books and get books all for free. These books are bought once and after that shared for free, the only difference is it's not online but on the streets.
https://littlefreelibrary.org/
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Why would anyone be creative if they don't get paid for their job? I know that this would work in an ultra left star trek kind of world, but we're not living in that world. Therefor, I also consider it a crime to share people's work without their consent.
However, this is all far from on-topic, so if there is nothing left to discuss about concerning the brexit, please continue if e.g. spamtopic.
However, this is all far from on-topic, so if there is nothing left to discuss about concerning the brexit, please continue if e.g. spamtopic.