Onderwerp: »[info] Dev Diary 77: Tax reform (final)

We want reduce the quality of top players, but we want same number of pops we have now.

Easy to learn, hard to master – have you ever considered using task system for beginners?

For instance but not in particular order:

task 1 - sell a player and you get a point, or small amount of money or so
task 2 - buy a player and you get smth else
task 3 - arrange a friendly (or other) match and you get a medium youth player
..
task n - open youth school and you get mid level youth coach
task m - set up your own tactic and you get mid level main coach

etc.


When they finish all of the tasks, then they get full access to the game.

That way they will learn the basics and won't make huge mistakes, like increase stadium, which was the first thing I did!!

Do you think there are too many top players? I am not really sure about that.

But what i am sure about is that there is not enough top juniors, or at least it is very badly distributed.
I am one of the oldest users here and in about 16 years (not sure how many seasons) had only 2 magical juniors.
I like to train juniors, but i am pretty sure that i had more expenses(school + trainer) for the school than earnings.

Do you think there are too many top players? I am not really sure about that.


Good question. I think at absolute top-level (3*18 ATT, 4*17 MID) there could be less players than nowadays. It should be rarer to reach this quality, but perhaps more subtle changes could do the job. It is not the biggest problem after all.


But what i am sure about is that there is not enough top juniors, or at least it is very badly distributed.
I am one of the oldest users here and in about 16 years (not sure how many seasons) had only 2 magical juniors.
I like to train juniors, but i am pretty sure that i had more expenses(school + trainer) for the school than earnings.

The same here, I never even had a magical junior in all the years. But on the other hand I know about people who had several unearthly or divine juniors. I think that there is a good discussion about juniors here (Subject: [idea] Youth Structures). Junior system should be less about random and more about strategy.

I really hope they don't try and change too much too soon or are too radical in their changes as they could simply kill the very fabric of the game :-(

As it happens, initially, I hope that not too much changes. Clearly the flash issue needs to be resolved (as I've mentioned before) so that's what the priority should be imo. However, after that, I would hope that they would fix known "bugs" as that would give the guys making the updates the opportunity to "have a look at the code" before undertaking anything more ambitious.

Then I would hope that they would simply get into discussion on ONE issue at a time and implement them one by one so that they are not overwhelmed under 100s of updates in one go with unknown consequences. This would mean the game could be improved one step at a time and that would give us time to see how the previous updates are affecting the game.

That might sound way too slow for you guys. But if you try and implement too much in one go you might simply end up with a complete mess on your hands. At least, this approach would see an improvement in the game over time (which is a definite improvement on what we have now) with the chance to assess how these changes might have changed things along the way.

Easy to learn, hard to master – have you ever considered using task system for beginners?

+1

+1

You're forgetting one important variable regarding the youth school, and that is that the manager decides who to keep. So reading that you've had only 2 magical juniors doesn't necessarily have to mean anything if you've followed a very tight strategy on who to keep.

For example, I've had 1 divine junior in all the years I've been playing, but he was 20 years old when promoted. Probably lots and lots of managers would never have kept such a junior, because of the age. Besides that I've had probably a handful of magicals and unearthlys, but I can't remember any real jackpot-players (18 yo magical/unearthly). Which is fine, they're jackpot-players for a reason.

That being said, there are definitely improvements to be made in the ys. I think too many talent gets wasted now, plus too many (even very experienced) managers decide not to have a ys at all, because they don't feel it's worth it. Furthermore, if you look at the prices of young players, it's obvious that there are too few of them.

I wouldn't mind a youth school being mandatory, just like in rl (every professional club, everywhere in the world, is required to have a youth school). That would mean more youth players coming in, ys investment-money flowing out of the Sokker-economy, thus lowering prices of (young) players.

So when I read about balance, I definitely thinksomething needs to be done in the ys to balance it out again. What buttons to push exactly is up to the devs ;)

Would be better then own players (from youth) training better and/or play better your own first lovely team.

Also would be good if the random generated youth change about fix skill levels youth. Suchs as if youth scool high, generate guaranteed better players.
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Fwiw, I have played other games where you can reach the top in say 2 months. I no longer play such games. Enough said.

If people want to buy and sell players that should be up to them imo and that includes day trading which I don't do. Good luck to them I say, I haven't got the patience or the time to do that. However, if you want to stop day trading or at least affect this in some way then add a minimum length of time that a player must stay at a club for before he can be sold. But I have to ask, why are people so against this anyway? If somebody wants to spend his time making money in this way then why not? The only people who seem against this are people who can't do this because they either don't want to do this or don't have the time to do this. That's not the day traders problem as far as I can tell.

Given I am currently training youngsters and building up my funds I don't see anything wrong with people hoarding money given that's what I am doing. Anything that impacts on that simply from a point of view of "you shouldn't have xxx in the bank" I think is very counter-productive. How else can I attempt to bridge the gap between being top of the Prem League in England, where I were when I sold up my stars, to the top teams in other nations if I want to compete in the CC? Because I had no chance if I had carried on the same as I were doing.

That is what I would expect, but I would also want sokker to supply al the historical dataso I don't need SV any longer. Not haveing the data in SV any longer and neither in Sokker is not a good option. Thx for considering and trying.

I think that in the question of training we have not understood the idea of ​​the developers. ex: 18 year old player who 3x 9 for ATT, with 21 3x13 with 28 3x18.

with the system proposed by devs the example would be: with 18 3x9, with 21 3x15 and with 28 3x18. the top players will reach the same maximum level but with different evolution

I think they want this way, and it is more realistic :)

"The only people who seem against this are people who can't do this because they either don't want to do this or don't have the time to do this. That's not the day traders problem as far as I can tell."

Totally agree with your statement, but I would add the 3rd category: those who tried but failed miserably

For example, I've had 1 divine junior in all the years I've been playing, but he was 20 years old when promoted. Probably lots and lots of managers would never have kept such a junior, because of the age. Besides that I've had probably a handful of magicals and unearthlys, but I can't remember any real jackpot-players (18 yo magical/unearthly). Which is fine, they're jackpot-players for a reason.


I keep every player that has mathematical chance to get to the excellent level, before i did it for solid level, but solid juniors cant be sold anymore. I never had a divine junior. So the probabilities are not right now. Programmatically one could solve it with a seed number for every user, instead of seed number for the whole server. But there more interesting solutions for sure.
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Totally agree with your statement, but I would add the 3rd category: those who tried but failed miserably

Lol, indeed, I forgot to mention those people :-)

Imo it is not needed to have more talented topjoniors. If one trains the talented juniors himself then they need not be magical. I have been training badly distributed lowskillers in my club for years. As long as they are trainedf long term and talented they can still be topplayers. Granted though, low ages are needed.

That is exactly what I like, cause it provides challenges.
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