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Onderwerp: [GD] International Cup
I will repost small explanation, maybe it will make it more easy to understand:
1) rather like divisions, so:
lev1 (top division) - just one cup (32-64), for best teams
lev2 (few more cups) for example - 4 cups, gives another 128-256 places for rest of champions and top temas)
lev3 (still more cups, for example 4x4.
Important: numbers are an example ony - we need to wait for final seasonal schedule to set correct numbers (it's linked with number of teams in divisions).
1) rather like divisions, so:
lev1 (top division) - just one cup (32-64), for best teams
lev2 (few more cups) for example - 4 cups, gives another 128-256 places for rest of champions and top temas)
lev3 (still more cups, for example 4x4.
Important: numbers are an example ony - we need to wait for final seasonal schedule to set correct numbers (it's linked with number of teams in divisions).
nice idea...maybe also make those who win competitions to get promoted to next lvl and those who win top IC get automatically place in next season cup...
I understood perfectly!
but the problem I posed is a real problem.
30% of the sokker teams are Polish
If you respect proportion of users in every nation, there will be the same level of the teams, in every Cup. but in every Cup 30% of teams will be Polish. Included in the first level
If you don't respect the proportion of users in every nation, there will be, for exemple, only one Polish team on level one, maybe 4 in level 2, but in lower levels will be much polish teams and there will be no equality of strenght.
I repeat, it is a real problem that you will have to solve
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but the problem I posed is a real problem.
30% of the sokker teams are Polish
If you respect proportion of users in every nation, there will be the same level of the teams, in every Cup. but in every Cup 30% of teams will be Polish. Included in the first level
If you don't respect the proportion of users in every nation, there will be, for exemple, only one Polish team on level one, maybe 4 in level 2, but in lower levels will be much polish teams and there will be no equality of strenght.
I repeat, it is a real problem that you will have to solve
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Instead of a cup, we could have just a U21 league... only playing Fridays
when do you plan to implement those changes? next season or?
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He said on other topic, changes will only be made once ALL features are taken care of and decided, so certainly not before next season...
I dont know, if anyone asked why 2 games home away for international and playoff?
Sure, we need to make some simulations - we need to solve "polish" issue somehow for sure. We belive, that with game update it will be possible to recruit also new users, and we should focus our promotion on other countries than Poland.
It will take time- for sure we will stay as it is for next few seasons.
We need to introduce changes as one update + we also need some time for tests before, to make sure everything is working.
We need to introduce changes as one update + we also need some time for tests before, to make sure everything is working.
Raul, I worked about an hypothesis that I think can help you and the staff.
In this idea everything you said has been taken into consideration, and in addition I have analyzed and tried to solve some problems. The main one is the following: it is necessary to reconcile two different objectives.
The first: to give the Champions the opportunity to compete, as happens in the current Champions Cup.
The second: to have a Cup in which ALL can participate facing opponent teams of a value very similar to their own.
My solution is in this structure:
1 LEvel - CHAMPIONS CUP 'A' - 1 x 64 TEAMS (the only one with 64 teams)
2 Level - CHAMPIONS CUP 'B' - 4 cups X 32 TEAMS
In these two champions cups the participants are selected BY TITLES: as happens in the current Champions Cup. All the national champions, and the winners of the cups where they exist. Total Champions Cup A + B = 192 teams
Well, in all other levels the logic is different. The third level can be called "International Cup 1", the fourth level "International Cup 2", the fifth level "International Cup 3", etc. Participants at these levels are selected based on the ranking in their national championship. But how many teams from each nation? First, the structure:
3 Level - INTERNATIONAL CUP 1 - 16 cups x 32 teams each one - total 512 teams
4 level - INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 - 64 cups x 32 teams each one - total 2024 teams
5 level - INTERNATIONAL CUP 3 - 256 cups x 32 teams each one - total 8096 teams
Attention to the most important point: at each level the number of teams per nation who participates is determined by the average of two factors: the percentage of users of that nation out of the total users, and the percentage of leagues with an average rating higher than 60 present in that nation on the total of leagues with an average mark higher than 60 present in the world. Just an exemple to explain:
In Italy we have 792 active users. It is 8,22% of total of sokker users in the word. Ok
In Italy we have 15 leagues with average note > 60
In the sokker world there are for now 128 leagues with average note > 60 (yes, I checked this value in every country statistic)
in Italy, so, we have 11,72% of the leagues with average note >60
8,22% + 11,72% / 2 = 9,98%
this number, 9,98%, depend both of number of users, and average note of country leagues. So, Italy will have in every International Cup 9,98% of the teams. (except in the lowest)
So, will partecipate 51 italian teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1 (level 3, 512 teams), 202 italians teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 (level 4, 2024 teams) and the rest, in the actual lowest level, INTERNATIONAL CUP 3 (8096 teams divided in 256 cups of 32 teams)
In THIS DOCUMENT you can see a simulation about number of participants for each country of the world
I hope it's clear. Now, I will do exemples with 3 very different situations: Poland, Brazil and China
FIRST EXEMPLE Poland: 2950 user, 30,67% - 29 leagues with average note >60, 22,66%, average value 26,66%
Polish champion of 1 division and winner of polish CUP will participate to CHAMPIONS CUP A
There will be 137 polish teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1, 540 polish teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 and the rest will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
It means that all first and second division polish teams and 99 third division polish teams (aproximatly 6 of 8 team in every third division league) will participate in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1. 29 teams of third division and other 511 teams of 4ª division will partcicipate of INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 (aproximatly all the polish teams of 4 division). Other polish teams will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
SECOND EXEMPLE Brazil: 404 user, 4,20% - 4 leagues with average note >60, 3,13%, average value 3,66%
Brazilian champion of 1 division and winner of brazilian CUP will participate to CHAMPIONS CUP A or B
There will be 19 brazilian teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1, 74 brazilian teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 and the rest will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
It means that all first division brazilian teams and 17 second division brazilian teams (aproximatly 4 of 8 team in each second division league) will participate in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1. other teams of second division and other 51 teams of 3ª division will partcicipate of INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 (aproximatly 3 teams of each third division league). Other brazilian teams will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
THIRD EXEMPLE China: 39 user, 0,41% - 0 leagues with average note >60, 0,00%, average value 0,20%
Chinese champion of 1 division and maybe winner of chinese CUP will participate probably to CHAMPIONS CUP B
There will be 1 chinese team in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1, 4 chinese teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 and the rest will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
It means that second classified in chinese 1 division will participate in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1. 3º, 4º 5º and 6º in chinese first division will partcicipate of INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 and other chinese teams will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
Well, I think will be a good solution. Was funny to think about all this, I hope usefull for dev's work too.
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In this idea everything you said has been taken into consideration, and in addition I have analyzed and tried to solve some problems. The main one is the following: it is necessary to reconcile two different objectives.
The first: to give the Champions the opportunity to compete, as happens in the current Champions Cup.
The second: to have a Cup in which ALL can participate facing opponent teams of a value very similar to their own.
My solution is in this structure:
1 LEvel - CHAMPIONS CUP 'A' - 1 x 64 TEAMS (the only one with 64 teams)
2 Level - CHAMPIONS CUP 'B' - 4 cups X 32 TEAMS
In these two champions cups the participants are selected BY TITLES: as happens in the current Champions Cup. All the national champions, and the winners of the cups where they exist. Total Champions Cup A + B = 192 teams
Well, in all other levels the logic is different. The third level can be called "International Cup 1", the fourth level "International Cup 2", the fifth level "International Cup 3", etc. Participants at these levels are selected based on the ranking in their national championship. But how many teams from each nation? First, the structure:
3 Level - INTERNATIONAL CUP 1 - 16 cups x 32 teams each one - total 512 teams
4 level - INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 - 64 cups x 32 teams each one - total 2024 teams
5 level - INTERNATIONAL CUP 3 - 256 cups x 32 teams each one - total 8096 teams
Attention to the most important point: at each level the number of teams per nation who participates is determined by the average of two factors: the percentage of users of that nation out of the total users, and the percentage of leagues with an average rating higher than 60 present in that nation on the total of leagues with an average mark higher than 60 present in the world. Just an exemple to explain:
In Italy we have 792 active users. It is 8,22% of total of sokker users in the word. Ok
In Italy we have 15 leagues with average note > 60
In the sokker world there are for now 128 leagues with average note > 60 (yes, I checked this value in every country statistic)
in Italy, so, we have 11,72% of the leagues with average note >60
8,22% + 11,72% / 2 = 9,98%
this number, 9,98%, depend both of number of users, and average note of country leagues. So, Italy will have in every International Cup 9,98% of the teams. (except in the lowest)
So, will partecipate 51 italian teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1 (level 3, 512 teams), 202 italians teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 (level 4, 2024 teams) and the rest, in the actual lowest level, INTERNATIONAL CUP 3 (8096 teams divided in 256 cups of 32 teams)
In THIS DOCUMENT you can see a simulation about number of participants for each country of the world
I hope it's clear. Now, I will do exemples with 3 very different situations: Poland, Brazil and China
FIRST EXEMPLE Poland: 2950 user, 30,67% - 29 leagues with average note >60, 22,66%, average value 26,66%
Polish champion of 1 division and winner of polish CUP will participate to CHAMPIONS CUP A
There will be 137 polish teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1, 540 polish teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 and the rest will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
It means that all first and second division polish teams and 99 third division polish teams (aproximatly 6 of 8 team in every third division league) will participate in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1. 29 teams of third division and other 511 teams of 4ª division will partcicipate of INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 (aproximatly all the polish teams of 4 division). Other polish teams will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
SECOND EXEMPLE Brazil: 404 user, 4,20% - 4 leagues with average note >60, 3,13%, average value 3,66%
Brazilian champion of 1 division and winner of brazilian CUP will participate to CHAMPIONS CUP A or B
There will be 19 brazilian teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1, 74 brazilian teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 and the rest will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
It means that all first division brazilian teams and 17 second division brazilian teams (aproximatly 4 of 8 team in each second division league) will participate in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1. other teams of second division and other 51 teams of 3ª division will partcicipate of INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 (aproximatly 3 teams of each third division league). Other brazilian teams will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
THIRD EXEMPLE China: 39 user, 0,41% - 0 leagues with average note >60, 0,00%, average value 0,20%
Chinese champion of 1 division and maybe winner of chinese CUP will participate probably to CHAMPIONS CUP B
There will be 1 chinese team in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1, 4 chinese teams in INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 and the rest will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
It means that second classified in chinese 1 division will participate in INTERNATIONAL CUP 1. 3º, 4º 5º and 6º in chinese first division will partcicipate of INTERNATIONAL CUP 2 and other chinese teams will participate to INTERNATIONAL CUP 3
Well, I think will be a good solution. Was funny to think about all this, I hope usefull for dev's work too.
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Wow, i'm impressed. We need to think about it, but for sure it's worth to be discussed.
Attention to the most important point: at each level a number of teams per nation who participates is determined by the average of two factors: the percentage of users of that nation out of the total users, and the percentage of leagues with an average rating higher than 60 present in that nation on the total of leagues with an average mark higher than 60 present in the world.
That's especially interesting thought - our first idea Was about best places from strongest leagues, without country factor - but probably its interesting to do the math with % of users from each country too. I will steal your idea and talk with DEVs.
Attention to the most important point: at each level a number of teams per nation who participates is determined by the average of two factors: the percentage of users of that nation out of the total users, and the percentage of leagues with an average rating higher than 60 present in that nation on the total of leagues with an average mark higher than 60 present in the world.
That's especially interesting thought - our first idea Was about best places from strongest leagues, without country factor - but probably its interesting to do the math with % of users from each country too. I will steal your idea and talk with DEVs.
yep definitely worth thinking @Re_Ietto great idea ! this will be a booster so community can grow
Great job, man, congratulations!
I only would make the whole thing not as a cup but as a league - as in slavista's idea was.
I prefer league only because this would fullfill the calendar of all users, with the int. league we would have fix matches every week. The promotion and relegation after the first season could be the same as in national (normal) league we have now.
Or maybe 4 matches a week: 2 cup matches (national+international) and 2 league matches (national+international). After a few weeks, the major part of the users will fall out from cups, so they will have 2 fix matches until the season end phasis. Yes, in the beginning of the season, 4 matches/week would be not so easy, but there are already many users who says that the 4 matches/week is needed. So with this soluiton should be everybody satisfied.
And back to your proposal, Re_Ietto: wow, that's a good one.
I only would make the whole thing not as a cup but as a league - as in slavista's idea was.
I prefer league only because this would fullfill the calendar of all users, with the int. league we would have fix matches every week. The promotion and relegation after the first season could be the same as in national (normal) league we have now.
Or maybe 4 matches a week: 2 cup matches (national+international) and 2 league matches (national+international). After a few weeks, the major part of the users will fall out from cups, so they will have 2 fix matches until the season end phasis. Yes, in the beginning of the season, 4 matches/week would be not so easy, but there are already many users who says that the 4 matches/week is needed. So with this soluiton should be everybody satisfied.
And back to your proposal, Re_Ietto: wow, that's a good one.
calendar can be filled with cup as well if teams play until the end between eliminated teams
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But this would make no sense at all. If only because of trainings, the whole friendly system will do it as we have now. Or am I understanding something wrong?
was mentioned somewhere that friendly will have very small impact on training to give only same training option for all teams but its not on topic lets wait news for training