Onderwerp: [info] Training issue - solutions

Well, it's true that reducing the season length made that during about 12 seasons older players will be better than younger ones will ever be, since they had more weeks to train during their carreer. That could make Juniors be less valuable during these 12 seasons

But it's a temporary effect, and 4 of that seasons (if I counted them well) are already gone. Once old players are born in the new system, the relation between old players and juniors will come back to the usual balance

In other words, you don't recognize as a problem that the first division players of a country cannot train youth players?

The game is no longer enjoyable. league time has already decreased. The players do not develop enough and there is an injury. I'm doing a safe tactic out of fear of injury, the player gets injured again...

That's a different issue, it always was like that. But it has nothing to do with the training reform or the player's salary increase

I can't think of a good solution to that. IRL they also don't usually train in the top división clubs, they play on the B team or they are loaned to other clubs until they are ready

Also, a 19yo RL player IS much better than a 19 yo Sokker player. It would need a big reform of many things

The players do not develop enough and there is an injury. I'm doing a safe tactic out of fear of injury, the player gets injured again...

injuries is a big fail of dev team XD
no much little planning and ability to reconsider

You know, watching these 'matches' unfortunately reminds me of why I quit this game many, many years ago.

https://sokker.org/comment/matchID/39939538
https://sokker.org/comment?matchID=39939643
https://sokker.org/comment/matchID/39939419

This really stinks. I can't believe that a change hasn't been made in all these years.

Why? What's the point in having a game you aren't going to seriously play?

The answer a decade ago was simple: end injuries in friendlies. There was no reason for them back then, and there's no reason for them now.

Yes, they have arcade games now for 'plus' and that's good - at least I'll get to enjoy games this way - but it doesn't change the fact that players getting injured in friendlies is killing fun in this game. If I was a developer of this game I would literally CRINGE at 'matches' like this.
(gewijzigd)

almost nobody watches friendly games anyway, what's the difference

players getting injured in EVERY game kill the fun, do you propose to delete injuries from the game?

or maybe we should make training disconnected from playing time?

I watch my friendlies? Maybe in 10 seasons I won't care, but the only reason I have stuck around once coming back is the actual games/engine. What is there to this game to keep people playing, if not the games themselves?

I would never suggest removing all injuries from games. Certainly not league/national cup games.

The answer, yes, is disconnecting training from playing time - this solution is already half-way implemented (50% training with no game time, and players able to train with slight injured state). It's either time to do more with this, or simply remove injuries from friendlies.
(gewijzigd)

or maybe we should make training disconnected from playing time?

Been saying this for a while.

Either by increasing exp influence on performance or limiting max skill level you can train based on exp. That would solve most of the injury issues and would eradicate corner tactics. Also U21/NT status for player would matter a lot more as players would gain exp noticeably faster the more they play. Second option would even solve "all players are 17s/18s in main skills" as exp could be scaled in a way to not allow those levels until players are so old they can get maybe 2x17 or 1x18 max.

But they just reworked training system, devs wont do that again so soon.

There's one HUGE downside to that

If you allow max training then it would be relatively easy to have a maxed out team all the time

Just gather enough money to have for a top team [200m euro...?] and then have an additional 15-20m euro for 10 training players

You can either train yourself the next generation [easy] or make a lot money on training and trading [time-consuming] so that you can keep investing more money into a team that gets older every season, money made during the season would at least match the value lost in aging players... It would be great for top/rich teams, but I doubt that would be good for the game in the longterm.

I totally agree with borkos here. A game that doesn't see some rotation at the top leagues over time is simply not healthy.

I play in a hockey game similar to this, and most 'good' franchises essentially build, age out, and rebuild over the course of years. So, they have a year or so of being irrelevant, in lower leagues and just having bad results...but eventually as the players get to age 23, 24, 25 you start promoting back up the higher national leagues. Then you spend 5-6 seasons at the top, competing for titles. From there, you either sell off players and rebuild from scratch (which naturally gives you better trainees next cycle) or you try and stay up there by buying older players. In the short term this works but it is not economically sustainable. Eventually you have to sell off and restart anyway.

Very much like - in the NFL (American football) teams can push salary cap into future years - it only works for so long.

This is why I'm proposing removal of injuries from friendlies - so we can stop seeing these embarrassingly unrealistic footie matches. Friendly training is 85% and the very nature of friendlies is that teams don't play with the same intensity as league/official games.
(gewijzigd)

Well you scale exp gains for that to force play trainees in more than 1 friendly per week or they fall back comparatively whether by losing ceiling or by being useless on the field later in their career regardless of skills and that would reflect on transfer value.
By your description you can do what you say now already, just with 85% efficiency on training which would be the same then just without the injuries affecting training and fixing other issues along the way.

+1 for removal of injuries in friendly

Well you scale exp gains for that to force play trainees in more than 1 friendly per week or they fall back comparatively whether by losing ceiling or by being useless on the field later in their career regardless of skills and that would reflect on transfer value.

1. that would only have impact on training players for your team in the future
2. you could still use them in friendlies/early National Cup rounds to give them exp
3. people would still looks mostly at skills [same with form]
4. exp/skill would have zero impact on trading after 4-8-16 weeks of training, you buy 16-17yo, you sell in the same age or year older, nobody will care about exp at that age so it would not impact the value/price

By your description you can do what you say now already, just with 85% efficiency on training

not really, maybe you could do it in Latvia

you have to use players to train them, where would you do that in Poland? you would have to forfeit in early rounds of National Cup, but you don't create a strong team to forfeit one of two possible trophies. and the Polish national cup has 11 rounds.
(gewijzigd)

In other words, you don't recognize as a problem that the first division players of a country cannot train youth players?

I've been writing about that for some time.
There is no way top division team can train young players (without giving them lesser training od 85% for one friendly in a week)

At the other hand if you, as a community, can develop a good pool of 2nd level teams who don't want to compete, you can train your future NT players by your own.

Well he can but he basically compete with 10 players. Though last season my 20y striker had more goals than one close 3x17..
What bothers me most is the slowed training for u27 +
Cause for youths was always like this now is even slightly better