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Onderwerp: »»Youth reform: Changes in youth academies / junior traini
Also, is there any vision on what to do with the current junior matches and junior leagues system?
Note that zero in that graph means a « very poor junior » as a median draw.
it could be ok to get very rare super talent skilled juniors for a few super lucky coach. It’s ok to get direct sackable juniors, just bad luck. It’s not ok to get mostly sackable juniors.
The distribution could a problem (for me, rare juniors should remain rare) but it never solved that the medium draw is a sackable juniors.
Looking at the system, a medium draw is : 17y (16y to 18) level 3.5 (0 to 6 if i remember well), talent 4.5 (3 to 6) and 17 weeks of training (1 to 33). When we get a 17y level 3.5 talent 4.5 for 17 weeks it’s ending at 18y (for hope) at level 8 (at max). We just sack this, whatever the skill distribution.
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it could be ok to get very rare super talent skilled juniors for a few super lucky coach. It’s ok to get direct sackable juniors, just bad luck. It’s not ok to get mostly sackable juniors.
The distribution could a problem (for me, rare juniors should remain rare) but it never solved that the medium draw is a sackable juniors.
Looking at the system, a medium draw is : 17y (16y to 18) level 3.5 (0 to 6 if i remember well), talent 4.5 (3 to 6) and 17 weeks of training (1 to 33). When we get a 17y level 3.5 talent 4.5 for 17 weeks it’s ending at 18y (for hope) at level 8 (at max). We just sack this, whatever the skill distribution.
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There need to be a distinction what actually mean a junior is good. My guess is that based on pressroom suggestions good junior is one that may reach level 12+ (assuming talent range 3.5-4.5)
But here are extra things that need to be included to that calculation:
a) skill distribution
b) age of player 18y Vs 20y
c) how long such players stays in youth school
d) when players joins school - 16y level 7 with 3 weeks to promotion will be a golden ticket in first week of season, while may not be that good in last week of same season
But here are extra things that need to be included to that calculation:
a) skill distribution
b) age of player 18y Vs 20y
c) how long such players stays in youth school
d) when players joins school - 16y level 7 with 3 weeks to promotion will be a golden ticket in first week of season, while may not be that good in last week of same season
I just explain what is a “medium” junior draw. Whatever is skill distribution, the weeks of season, and even if talent was 3 it will never reach 12+ level at 18y+ (as you hope). I don’t define what is an expected good draw, I define what is a medium draw, predictably sackable.
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I was talking about thing Raul wrote, that there are too many good juniors who are being throw off;)
1. balance skill distribution, for example, predefine a player for a position they're suitable for to avoid situations where points go to goalkeeping or defense with shooting, leaving all others at a tragic level.
Balancing skill distribution would be good if it would be properly balanced with training gains for youths. It doesn't necessary mean more TOP players. It needs to be balanced so you get reasonable skills for either GK, DEF-MID or ATT for youth with X level at given age, not the current way where you can get either god player or mediocre player from the same level.
2. balance talent drawings and the level of youths, more along the Gaussian curve (i.e., many moderately talented players, huge talents appearing rarely, and equally huge failures).
If you do it in the wrong way you might lower number of TOP players by hundreds of times with this change alone and also decrease youths with talent that users would describe as "average"...
Talent of your "average" sold and then trained youth is now (probably much) better than the average talent given to youth at the start of YS, as these with average or worse talent usually have worse skills and are not sold. If you use the standard Gaussian curve (with μ at the middle of talent range) you might significantly decrease the number of youths that are worth training with their talent.
Don't touch things if you don't fully understand how they work.
3. I would keep the idea of releasing the skill limit of a player leaving the academy at an older age so that there is still a chance that some players can almost enter the first team directly from the academy (or at least from the bench without great harm to the game level).
If older youths don't get bonus to their skills it won't produce much better older youths. You might make the limit higher, but they will rarely reach that limit, and if they did in some skill it will hurt in others...
You want to balance older youths? Easy: if someone comes at age 17 to YS give them +1 to all skills at the end of their youth school stay, If they come at age 18 give them +2 to all skills. This is just the basic idea, it can be designed better. It should also be balanced with the moment of the season they come to YS.
4. I would keep the idea of the analyst position - it can even be expanded, a divine analyst would, for example, give a glimpse of a player's skills during training.
It's irrelevant to the balance of youths, early knowledge of skills doesn't really matter, the only thing that would be nice is the better talent knowledge
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Anyway, whatever will be done with YS it won't change the simple fact: you only need X youths every season to meet needs for new youths on market. There are better youths? Too bad, still only few % of the best ones will be trained, just the standard for "good enough to be bought and trained" youth will raise.
The only thing that would slightly help is youths leaving YS at older age, as it would slightly lower average time needed for full training cycle for players.
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Balancing skill distribution would be good if it would be properly balanced with training gains for youths. It doesn't necessary mean more TOP players. It needs to be balanced so you get reasonable skills for either GK, DEF-MID or ATT for youth with X level at given age, not the current way where you can get either god player or mediocre player from the same level.
2. balance talent drawings and the level of youths, more along the Gaussian curve (i.e., many moderately talented players, huge talents appearing rarely, and equally huge failures).
If you do it in the wrong way you might lower number of TOP players by hundreds of times with this change alone and also decrease youths with talent that users would describe as "average"...
Talent of your "average" sold and then trained youth is now (probably much) better than the average talent given to youth at the start of YS, as these with average or worse talent usually have worse skills and are not sold. If you use the standard Gaussian curve (with μ at the middle of talent range) you might significantly decrease the number of youths that are worth training with their talent.
Don't touch things if you don't fully understand how they work.
3. I would keep the idea of releasing the skill limit of a player leaving the academy at an older age so that there is still a chance that some players can almost enter the first team directly from the academy (or at least from the bench without great harm to the game level).
If older youths don't get bonus to their skills it won't produce much better older youths. You might make the limit higher, but they will rarely reach that limit, and if they did in some skill it will hurt in others...
You want to balance older youths? Easy: if someone comes at age 17 to YS give them +1 to all skills at the end of their youth school stay, If they come at age 18 give them +2 to all skills. This is just the basic idea, it can be designed better. It should also be balanced with the moment of the season they come to YS.
4. I would keep the idea of the analyst position - it can even be expanded, a divine analyst would, for example, give a glimpse of a player's skills during training.
It's irrelevant to the balance of youths, early knowledge of skills doesn't really matter, the only thing that would be nice is the better talent knowledge
---
Anyway, whatever will be done with YS it won't change the simple fact: you only need X youths every season to meet needs for new youths on market. There are better youths? Too bad, still only few % of the best ones will be trained, just the standard for "good enough to be bought and trained" youth will raise.
The only thing that would slightly help is youths leaving YS at older age, as it would slightly lower average time needed for full training cycle for players.
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And for what is worth :
Nobody here expect huge improvements. it’s an evidence that your are short on devs ressources for now. When I heard about « an analyst for position » I known what it’s mean : a new thing for programmers, a new design in the interface, and times…
Please, just fix small things that already exist in the game, once by once, to just to keep us in the game during the next seasons, we are tired to wait for improvement. Then, your Big plans, when the situation is stable.
Nobody here expect huge improvements. it’s an evidence that your are short on devs ressources for now. When I heard about « an analyst for position » I known what it’s mean : a new thing for programmers, a new design in the interface, and times…
Please, just fix small things that already exist in the game, once by once, to just to keep us in the game during the next seasons, we are tired to wait for improvement. Then, your Big plans, when the situation is stable.
I never participated in junior league, this isn't important for me, and I never will participate in, if the things change. This won't motivate for me and I will close my junior school.
Everybody can decide want to participate in a junior league or no. But with advantage, I feel this wouldn't be correct.
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Everybody can decide want to participate in a junior league or no. But with advantage, I feel this wouldn't be correct.
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Thats why i think better level of fans JUST for junior team could help in getting better juniors. If not, nobody cares about winning or not junior matches
So you want teams that already win in youth (because they have better players) to receive even better players (so they can win even more)
Amazing idea
Amazing idea
Currently it’s almost quite the contrary, « better junior » rating usually means : keeping even more worthless juniors, it’s fair to receive a compensation :-)
You dont need to win in order to get better mood.
I kinda like daviz idea, but still, not sure if thats a solution
I kinda like daviz idea, but still, not sure if thats a solution
Of everything you mention to change the junior school, the only thing I see that you don't mention is the algorithm that distributes the talent that each team receives. It’s a fact there are teams that historically have had great "luck" when it comes to receiving great talented junior players and geting a great benefit and many other managers do not get any benefit from our youth school.
In my opinion, the first thing that should be improved is the probability that each team has the same chances (more or less) to get a good youth. It cannot be that there are managers who getting a great youth player every season and others go 12 seasons without getting one. A game that bases success on work, planning, study, cannot be that such an important part of it as the youth school is reduced to having more or less luck with the entry of good youth players, talented or not.
In my opinion, the first thing that should be improved is the probability that each team has the same chances (more or less) to get a good youth. It cannot be that there are managers who getting a great youth player every season and others go 12 seasons without getting one. A game that bases success on work, planning, study, cannot be that such an important part of it as the youth school is reduced to having more or less luck with the entry of good youth players, talented or not.
It’s not true, or you didn’t read his last post.
2. balance talent drawings and the level of youths, more along the Gaussian curve (i.e., many moderately talented players, huge talents appearing rarely, and equally huge failures).
Also all other proposals (4) will drastically improve all juniors.
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2. balance talent drawings and the level of youths, more along the Gaussian curve (i.e., many moderately talented players, huge talents appearing rarely, and equally huge failures).
Also all other proposals (4) will drastically improve all juniors.
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