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Onderwerp: »7860 managers in Sokker!
I remember it being 85,000 back around 2008 and about 40,000 when I left in 2012.
It's not like the Devs weren't given plenty of warning when the numbers started dropping sharply. From what I hear, nothing was done until recently.
It's not like the Devs weren't given plenty of warning when the numbers started dropping sharply. From what I hear, nothing was done until recently.
As I remembered only the polish users were more then 20.000.
sad. the game has potential to have a lot of users. it is not perfect and i enjoy it but i guess many people have a negative experience. hope it changes
You are drawing conclusions based on flawed data. Number of users is now that much lower than just few months ago thanks to loczenty regularly deleting all the accounts that should be deleted. Some of the earlier numbers on your lists are inflated because of human-bots.
I started gathering data in April - there were 9362 users and 7467 logged in the last 50 days back then.
And now (on Monday) there were 7110 users and 7097 that logged in the last 50 days.
Also number of plus accounts increased by about 50 since June.
(Link to my database and column description are on page 514)
I started gathering data in April - there were 9362 users and 7467 logged in the last 50 days back then.
And now (on Monday) there were 7110 users and 7097 that logged in the last 50 days.
Also number of plus accounts increased by about 50 since June.
(Link to my database and column description are on page 514)
So what you're saying is that actually the numbers are even worse than what I posted.
I think what he said is 2k were deleted and mostly bots. Plus is up which is good. Still trajectory is down but losing 350 active accounts in 6 months isn't as bad. If we can fix the churn then growth may happen
Yeah, I see no death spiral here as of yet. Actual numbers even went up for some time during the period Mikoos posted. Fluctuation is normal and expected, even if there's no denying the dwindling numbers.
For the last decade, a substantial number of people have waved the "this is the end"-flag. But we're still here, and the game is still very much playable - otherwise we would be long gone, right?
Current state has its flaws, to put it mildly, but the foundation continues to be rock solid imo. I, for one, believe the game still has a future.
For the last decade, a substantial number of people have waved the "this is the end"-flag. But we're still here, and the game is still very much playable - otherwise we would be long gone, right?
Current state has its flaws, to put it mildly, but the foundation continues to be rock solid imo. I, for one, believe the game still has a future.
It depends on the costs of running this place vs how much those 1500 plus members bring in. At some point they're going to start losing money.
Rough estimate, Plus is between £1.50 and £2.50 a month. So 1500 members brings in between £2250 and £3750 a month. Let's say £3000 average.
Anyone know how much it costs to run a staffed website with, what I assume, are not cheap server costs?
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Rough estimate, Plus is between £1.50 and £2.50 a month. So 1500 members brings in between £2250 and £3750 a month. Let's say £3000 average.
Anyone know how much it costs to run a staffed website with, what I assume, are not cheap server costs?
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It’s not really a staffed website. Server costs are their only regular cost, no idea how high they might be, but I’d assume they are very much in the green monthly.
I feel more assured after the data Mikoos showed. But I wonder about the data from Camus. If sokker used to have 85 or even 40k users and they were not bots then even if it the losses stabilized now it still sucks.
And even if Camus's data is wrong, there are many people in the world and Sokker staff is not transparent (maybe because of lack of staffing) so I wonder what the plan is for making soccer go from 7k to even 70k
I hope all the best. the more users we have the more fun it will be! nowadays most of the games in my league are vs bots, which is not fun
And even if Camus's data is wrong, there are many people in the world and Sokker staff is not transparent (maybe because of lack of staffing) so I wonder what the plan is for making soccer go from 7k to even 70k
I hope all the best. the more users we have the more fun it will be! nowadays most of the games in my league are vs bots, which is not fun
It's not my data, I just read back through this thread at what was being reported. It definitely was at 85k at one point but how many were bots, who knows?
As for staffing, maybe not traditionally staffed but I doubt the devs have run this place for 17 years as a charity. People have got to earn a living.
As for staffing, maybe not traditionally staffed but I doubt the devs have run this place for 17 years as a charity. People have got to earn a living.
Have in mind that, as far as I know, they didn't starting promoting the Game
They are not making all these investment and then not promoting It, they are still waiting some more pages to be finished with the new design, I guess
So, there still Will be a bunch of new users when they do. The question IS how many of them Will remain after the first weeks and if they Will be enough to continue the investment for them
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They are not making all these investment and then not promoting It, they are still waiting some more pages to be finished with the new design, I guess
So, there still Will be a bunch of new users when they do. The question IS how many of them Will remain after the first weeks and if they Will be enough to continue the investment for them
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As long as they do some honest marketing, integrate solid tools for the newbie experience and block new users from international forums for the first month or so, I think it might just work fine ;D
The question IS how many of them Will remain after the first weeks and if they Will be enough to continue the investment for them
Our data scientist should give us a clue :-) How many recent teams (1-2 seasons) are still active (50) ?
Our data scientist should give us a clue :-) How many recent teams (1-2 seasons) are still active (50) ?
Hello, I just got here after several years. I remember when our league forums were active and full of banter. Now even First League is dead. As I just got back in, few things on top of my head, as to how are we in this situation and what could be done.
1/ Interface - maybe for new users its simpler, but to me, coming back after years, its all a bit confusing, but I hope I will get a hang of it
2/ economics - the game feels unplayable for new users - you need to focus on training and raising money, which you have lack of in the beggining, as I just got 300.000 Euros, which with very inflated market does not get you far and you will have to dedicate months/years, to get anything going
3/ technology - back in the day I started with this game, as there was nothing else to do - gaming PC was worth a fortune, games were not that good or flashy, consoles were not really a common thing (maybe 1 of 5 in the school had some at home), phones did not really run games smoothly nor anything good. The though of managing your team on your PC from home, school, work, on the bus, anywhere - while it looked also fairly good and with active community - this was the genius behind it . Easy, simple and cheap solution how to access a lot of fun for basically free. You even could play if you had no PC at all, just log once a week at school/work/some PC coffee or something and you were all set.
If you look at those things, realistically, I will judge first from my own situation. Now I got home 2 laptops, gaming PC, gaming console and my phone runs anything I could ever want. All of those things were fairly cheap, considering inflation and how much gaming PC was back then, but mainly it all offers INSTANT results, instant fun, engaging, I have free time and can right now do something fun about it, does not matter if I sit on my toilet or just got home from work. What does Sokker exactly offer you? Nowadays. Every browser game I played back in the day is now basically dead (I re-loged to maybe 10 different browser games I played), and all of them are on the brink of death. Their problem is - very poor marketing - cant compete with regular PC/Console/Mobile games, which are just more fun and fairly similarly accessible. I play PUBG on my freakish phone for free, while talking with my buddies while doing so. What is for regular gamer who wants to have fun more engaging? That or logging there once a week to check result and how went training session?
This game was (I dont know if still is) great, but to me it feels like the days of browser gaming are numbered. If they want success, make it mobile app, you cant hope to keep players engaged if they have to compete with someone who has almost 20 years behind him. Its just demotivating, slow, not very fun. The market for players and your targets as a developer is very different from when this game launched. They simply choose not to adapt.
What could work? Hard question for the developers. BTW Wheres Greg?
1/ I would implement some activity based incentives (rewards after time periods online, add quests, missions, whatever that gives you the feeling of accomplishment and that you are indeed progressing faster than every quarter of a year.
2/ Add board interaction - make the game analyze your chances of advancing/relegation and so on, set expectations, set rewards based on how you do. Make it possible to ask for things, to make the progress and bridge the gap between dinosaurs over here (know of guys with hundreds of millions in their bank, doing nothing). Let them expand your stadium, improve facilities, whatever.
3/ Invest into marketing - I have not seen any AD for Sokker for over maybe a decade, despite playing and buying every football manager game out there for years and my search history being filled with football managers stuff.
To me it feels like this game has not changed since my elementary school days and I got today very emotional seeing that my country, which had amazing fanbase, has own page in native language with statistics and guides and so on, had dedicated people, who made football tourneys and meetings in real life to just vanish. Just now reading some old forums I was part of and seeing beside 90% of the names (del) really got to me.
Make the game better, change what you aim at, the target audience of this game has so many options to choose from that I cant see a reason, why my 15yo me, living in this current time, would choose to play this over anything I currently do and most kids do. I am here for a hour and already feel like I have nothing to do for a week. Thats not how gaming works nowadays.
Those were my few cents, I really hope this community stays put. Seeing guys like Sviktorov, who manager our NT back then, is great, but the issue as someone is talking here - its not about design, its about lack of features, engagement. You can change the packaging all you want, but if the contents are the same, it wont make a difference.
(gewijzigd)
1/ Interface - maybe for new users its simpler, but to me, coming back after years, its all a bit confusing, but I hope I will get a hang of it
2/ economics - the game feels unplayable for new users - you need to focus on training and raising money, which you have lack of in the beggining, as I just got 300.000 Euros, which with very inflated market does not get you far and you will have to dedicate months/years, to get anything going
3/ technology - back in the day I started with this game, as there was nothing else to do - gaming PC was worth a fortune, games were not that good or flashy, consoles were not really a common thing (maybe 1 of 5 in the school had some at home), phones did not really run games smoothly nor anything good. The though of managing your team on your PC from home, school, work, on the bus, anywhere - while it looked also fairly good and with active community - this was the genius behind it . Easy, simple and cheap solution how to access a lot of fun for basically free. You even could play if you had no PC at all, just log once a week at school/work/some PC coffee or something and you were all set.
If you look at those things, realistically, I will judge first from my own situation. Now I got home 2 laptops, gaming PC, gaming console and my phone runs anything I could ever want. All of those things were fairly cheap, considering inflation and how much gaming PC was back then, but mainly it all offers INSTANT results, instant fun, engaging, I have free time and can right now do something fun about it, does not matter if I sit on my toilet or just got home from work. What does Sokker exactly offer you? Nowadays. Every browser game I played back in the day is now basically dead (I re-loged to maybe 10 different browser games I played), and all of them are on the brink of death. Their problem is - very poor marketing - cant compete with regular PC/Console/Mobile games, which are just more fun and fairly similarly accessible. I play PUBG on my freakish phone for free, while talking with my buddies while doing so. What is for regular gamer who wants to have fun more engaging? That or logging there once a week to check result and how went training session?
This game was (I dont know if still is) great, but to me it feels like the days of browser gaming are numbered. If they want success, make it mobile app, you cant hope to keep players engaged if they have to compete with someone who has almost 20 years behind him. Its just demotivating, slow, not very fun. The market for players and your targets as a developer is very different from when this game launched. They simply choose not to adapt.
What could work? Hard question for the developers. BTW Wheres Greg?
1/ I would implement some activity based incentives (rewards after time periods online, add quests, missions, whatever that gives you the feeling of accomplishment and that you are indeed progressing faster than every quarter of a year.
2/ Add board interaction - make the game analyze your chances of advancing/relegation and so on, set expectations, set rewards based on how you do. Make it possible to ask for things, to make the progress and bridge the gap between dinosaurs over here (know of guys with hundreds of millions in their bank, doing nothing). Let them expand your stadium, improve facilities, whatever.
3/ Invest into marketing - I have not seen any AD for Sokker for over maybe a decade, despite playing and buying every football manager game out there for years and my search history being filled with football managers stuff.
To me it feels like this game has not changed since my elementary school days and I got today very emotional seeing that my country, which had amazing fanbase, has own page in native language with statistics and guides and so on, had dedicated people, who made football tourneys and meetings in real life to just vanish. Just now reading some old forums I was part of and seeing beside 90% of the names (del) really got to me.
Make the game better, change what you aim at, the target audience of this game has so many options to choose from that I cant see a reason, why my 15yo me, living in this current time, would choose to play this over anything I currently do and most kids do. I am here for a hour and already feel like I have nothing to do for a week. Thats not how gaming works nowadays.
Those were my few cents, I really hope this community stays put. Seeing guys like Sviktorov, who manager our NT back then, is great, but the issue as someone is talking here - its not about design, its about lack of features, engagement. You can change the packaging all you want, but if the contents are the same, it wont make a difference.
(gewijzigd)