Onderwerp: »General Questions

Your budget outweights every other aspect that is taking into account when calculating expectations.
If you have clearly more money than the other competitors then you will always need to be 1st in league. I had the same last season - I was the weakest in every aspect - number of fans, last season placement, team strength but had more money so expectations were to be first.

Welcome to a new sokker reality where managers without ambition (just getting by, „investing” all money into old players) can enjoy low expectations and therefore better fan mood :)

Welcome to a new sokker reality where managers without ambition (just getting by, „investing” all money into old players) can enjoy low expectations and therefore better fan mood :)

That's a very weird description, twisting the facts. You rather mean managers with ambitions who are playing the game instead of hiding themselves in low leagues and hamstering money for the moment when they will be uberstrong because they have no ambitions to fight, to try when they are on similar/weaker/little higher level.

Nope, he is 100% right.

People without ambitions, who stay in low leagues because they burn all money all the time without a improvement plan are now rewarded in the new system for their lack of interest in the game.

Still who has ambition and promotes gains more than staying in low league.

Two seasons in a row when I won 5th and 4th league. Not burning all my money. Not beeing strongest team in any of those two seasons. Training young players all the time giving them minutes in league matches too.
I feel really rewarded having 100% all the time and max mood.

That's great for you, not necessarily for people who want to win trophies in Poland and in order to that have to redo their team and budget in lower leagues :) And I don't think calling such users "not ambitious" is fitting.

Still who has ambition and promotes gains more than staying in low league.

not necessarily, stronger leagues team sometimes have very low expectations because they have an empty bank account... so even average results give them high fan mood / high expectations fulfilment

That's indeed a pattern. A lot of managers are turning in circles. Making bad and expensive player selection, training players in a non profitable way (due to bad talent, emotional decisions, bad timing, ...) and the eventual too small profit is gone with the buying of older players (to compensate the bad earnings) and worse trainees to begin a new cycle of cash burning. They should be "punished" for the bad management instead of the teams who are trying to optimise their club and training. It's a bit ironic that the dramatically managed teams are pleased with some extra "minimoneydrain" from other teams but at the same time they don't see the real problem that holds them back from succes, namely their own managerskills.

either we are writing about different types of users or You are also distorting the facts

how they are "without ambitions"? they might be of course, but being in low league doesn't necessarilly mean no ambitions; they certainly might lack some skills (if they burn all the money without improvement), but as long as they want/try to advance higher in league hierarchy they have ambitions
and I dont see how being in the low league might be call a "reward" - if I understand correctly, users You are describing stay in the low league because they are weak managers and even game recognizes them as such and adapts the expectations properly, but having low expectations in low league is not a reward because You are still in low league

and real users without ambitions are users who choose to stay in low league hiding behind "game is bad/unfinished", "no point playing the game in its current state" etc. or just hamstering money by slow/fast trading
and it's rather that the game punishes those without ambitions who are just hamstering money, by making it harder to hamster money due to higher expectations which are logically and properly raised due to pile of gold in budgets of clubs of those managers

Yeah, lots of such teams and when you try to help them and explain how they could improve, they suddenly get very defensive and angry.

Often saying such things as "they have their own way", "there are many ways to succeed", "the team will improve" bla bla bla. And you need 2 minutes to make an evaluation of their team and can clearly see that they invested into traineees less than 5% of all money for their team and they spent a lot on players that will continue to lose value and won't improve, so after 3-6 seasons they will be back in the same spot.

But hey, now thanks to this great change they will be rewarded for going in circles. :)

how they are "without ambitions"? they might be of course, but being in low league doesn't necessarilly mean no ambitions; they certainly might lack some skills (if they burn all the money without improvement), but as long as they want/try to advance higher in league hierarchy they have ambitions

if someone stays on same league level for 8 or 10 years [not seasons] then they obviously have no ambitions in this game and are not even trying to learn the basics

I have such teams in my IVth league, they have very low expectations = are now being rewarded for being uninterested in the game

while people trying to maximise their efficiency are being punished

you can go around it any way you can but that's how it works today

not necessarily, stronger leagues team sometimes have very low expectations because they have an empty bank account... so even average results give them high fan mood / high expectations fulfilment

1. Mood comes in 60% from expectations, so without decent results you won't have top mood
2. If a user doesn't have money, or has small budget + he is "noob" or not ambitious:
- if he spends all his money for old players without training youngsters properly, he will be weaker each season until some very low level like bottom of polish 5th league which will results in "goal achieved" maybe
- training youngsters properly will have better team = most likely better results or selling them will have more money, in both casas will improve expectations in next season
- having low expectations he will improve his fanclub which will improve expectations next season

There are so mamy "ways" expectations can develope, but in any of that casas I don't think there is a point of perfect stagnation / doing nothing and having max mood.

Im not saying they will necessarily have a top mood, but they will definitely have a better mood (and thus income) than they had with previous system because they will receive the "expectations bonus", so they will be able to burn more money than before :)

at the same time "improving teams" with already gathered budget (I'm not talking about 150m euro+) that are going up slowly while improving their team will be on the other side of the spectrum, because there will be more expected from them than they are able to do at such point of their development

I have such teams in my IVth league, they have very low expectations = are now being rewarded for being uninterested in the game
so they should have high expectations instead? for having weak teams and low budget?

while people trying to maximise their efficiency are being punished
and who are they? traders? what is "maximizing efficiency"? if my 3rd league team would spent half of my budget or all of my budget to advance 2 leagues higher would it be "maximizing efficiency"? I could call it that way, but I dont think that the expectations in those higher leagues would be high for my team then


You can call it what You want but I would rather say, that if someone would cause his team to drop to lower league on purpose or if someone is engaged in trading rather than playing football manager game then he is uninterested in the game whether he learnt game basics or not.

40% comes from old mood system. If they are sitting in same league over a years = they are not that bad, In old system they would have mood at about level 4 without beeing relegated.
Now, talking about the rest 60%, to be rewarded they should fullfill expectations at "above expectations", I think " goal achieved won't be enough.
And still I don't think such team would easy achieve that "above expectations" level doing nothing.
Sitting in the same league for a long time they would have a higher than average fanclub + beeing top6 or 7-9 after winning playoffs still having more points from the place in league than 3 or more teams promoted from lower division. Also spending their money on old players they would have some points from average marks and value of the squad.
That all makes that such team you are talking about would probably have expectations like "top half of the table" not lower.

Expectations are one thing, the second is to fullfill them.
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so they should have high expectations instead? for having weak teams and low budget?

so they should have normal expectations based on their team level, just like any other team and should not be rewarded for the fact that they have no money because they spend everything and don't care about training and making money

and who are they? traders? what is "maximizing efficiency"?

constantly improving seasons by season, level by level, improving the team level & the budget, working with set goals for next x seasons

You can call it what You want but I would rather say, that if someone would cause his team to drop to lower league on purpose or if someone is engaged in trading rather than playing football manager game then he is uninterested in the game whether he learnt game basics or not.

well then most Polish champions were uninterested in the game

40% comes from old mood system. If they are sitting in same league over a years = they are not that bad, In old system they would have mood at about level 4 without beeing relegated.

Oh, they are bad.
I'm talking about teams that have transfer difference of -100 000 000 euro
I have such team in my league. Playing since 2006, reaching ratings for 63-65 depending on season, losing money.

Now, talking about the rest 60%, to be rewarded they should fullfill expectations at "above expectations", I think " goal achieved won't be enough.

depends how you approach it. For example I will be either under [anything other than 1st] or expectations reach (no bonus) for winning the league. So they have to do close to nothing to achieve as much as I will by winning the league (while I have a weaker rating and I train youths).
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will be either under [anything other than 1st] or expectations reach (no bonus) for winning the league. So they have to do close to nothing to achieve as much as I will by winning the league (while I have a weaker rating and I train youths).

There is no bonus +2, +1 or penalty -1, -2 to mood (that was announced but was not implemented and won't be)
If both, you and such team will achieve goal from expectations, you beeing top of the league and such team beeing 5-9, you will be rewarded from recent matches satisfaction having better results (that 40% part)