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Onderwerp: Save sokker USA
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I've been playing this game a long time and it's sad to see this game dying. What do you guys think are the main reasons USA users are quitting or not staying after they join?
My top three things I don't like:
1) Left-side facebook pop up.
2) Too many injuries
3) Friendlies should have no injuries at all. They would be more fun if we could play some starters and trainees without fear. The alternative is hiding your trainees and playing scrubs.
My top three things I don't like:
1) Left-side facebook pop up.
2) Too many injuries
3) Friendlies should have no injuries at all. They would be more fun if we could play some starters and trainees without fear. The alternative is hiding your trainees and playing scrubs.
they need to stop making the lower skilled players so retarded (or any skill a player isn't amazing in so dumb).
Coaching the U21 has been a real eye opener to this because no player has enough skill to make any difference. Honestly, if a guy has weak striker or outstanding striker they seem to hit the ball on target the same number of times. So most of the time it doesn't even come down to the goalie, it's just can the guy put the ball on target!
On top of that, you have all the weird things with pace and stuff where a superdivine will run slower than an incredible and stuff, which still confuses me.
Lastly, I'm tired of seeing my defender with formidable PM and outstanding passing turn and kick the ball straight out of bounds when he has space. Not only does this not make sense for his skill set, but any player in this game could at least have the sense to just clear the ball down the field. Even 10 year old kids make better decisions than most of the defenders (even when I Coached the NT I saw defenders kick it straight out).
That being said, I don't mind it as much at the higher skill level because I can still see tactical advantages I'm gaining from positioning my players in certain ways. The problem is everyone below A league doesn't have the player skills to make it matter, because it seems any skill from poor to incredible is a random flip most of the time.
Coaching the U21 has been a real eye opener to this because no player has enough skill to make any difference. Honestly, if a guy has weak striker or outstanding striker they seem to hit the ball on target the same number of times. So most of the time it doesn't even come down to the goalie, it's just can the guy put the ball on target!
On top of that, you have all the weird things with pace and stuff where a superdivine will run slower than an incredible and stuff, which still confuses me.
Lastly, I'm tired of seeing my defender with formidable PM and outstanding passing turn and kick the ball straight out of bounds when he has space. Not only does this not make sense for his skill set, but any player in this game could at least have the sense to just clear the ball down the field. Even 10 year old kids make better decisions than most of the defenders (even when I Coached the NT I saw defenders kick it straight out).
That being said, I don't mind it as much at the higher skill level because I can still see tactical advantages I'm gaining from positioning my players in certain ways. The problem is everyone below A league doesn't have the player skills to make it matter, because it seems any skill from poor to incredible is a random flip most of the time.
Your three points would be a real start to improving the game functionally. Whether it would actually resurrect Sokker-USA is another question.
I played for about 3 years (aka River Rats, Coach Mark), left for 2, and came back. As far as I can tell, other than some match engine changes, this is still essentially the same game. There have been no changes to attract new users, although I admit the 3D viewer was an attempt at it. That said, I personally find do not find the 3D viewer to be a benefit. I admit it is cool, but to get a good view of what players are doing you lose track of what else is going on on the field and you can't use it for tactical adjustments.
Sad to say...But, unless or until there are changes that actually attract new users, I don't think much will change here.
I played for about 3 years (aka River Rats, Coach Mark), left for 2, and came back. As far as I can tell, other than some match engine changes, this is still essentially the same game. There have been no changes to attract new users, although I admit the 3D viewer was an attempt at it. That said, I personally find do not find the 3D viewer to be a benefit. I admit it is cool, but to get a good view of what players are doing you lose track of what else is going on on the field and you can't use it for tactical adjustments.
Sad to say...But, unless or until there are changes that actually attract new users, I don't think much will change here.
For me the problem isn't that Sokker doesn't attract new users - the worst part is that Sokker is starting to lose the old users.I'm pretty sad to see the game slowly dying, in the last year or so the game lost ~10 000 users and is down to an all time low.The reason for that imho is that the devs are trying to implement new things before they have fixed their old implementations.There are tons of old bugs which seem to be untouched and they just keep getting more with every new implementation.
Stupid ME changes, "own way" to do math when exists a lot of publications on a "soccer math" and much more. In most cases they nerf each formation rotating that nerfing so overall it makes even worse.
Just watch today's game of the USA NT - it explains a lot...
Wow... Is this a f**n' joke? As a player of an amateur soccer team we had to play tournaments against similar team as we but as well against pros from Cosmopolitan Soccer League where we have got raped :\ Same should be here.
I think Mr. Llama and mario pretty much nailed both of my biggest complaints.
1) There's too much failure in general, especially with less skilled players. Junior games are the most blatant example of this, they look like 4yr olds with special needs suffering from malnutrition playing blindfolded with a bowling ball on a sheet of ice.
2) When the developers make changes they don't finish the job. The push-then-stop bug for example. They implement this "push" thing, but never fix the bug where players often slow down or stop after pushing. People have been complaining about this since it was implemented, but they don't fix it. Why the **** not? How hard can it be? One mod in the international forum said we need to provide examples because the developers don't know about the bug. Really? It happens 20 times a game. If they don't see that then they're not watching the games.
Maybe that's why they can't design a ME that's actually fun to watch: with less failure on simple passes, a revised shooting/finishing model, more one-touch shots and passes, and a whole lot less stupidity from defenders clearing it out for no reason or wingers in acres of space pushing the ball out of bounds like a defective toddler.
Actually I think some of the recent ME changes were a step in the right direction, the passing model is better, and I like that headers are not so powerful, but they totally screwed the pooch with the weakening of defenders tackling from the front, and some other things.
Pretty much the story with the devs here, they "fix" one thing and break two more.
They would be better served to make one change at a time, make sure they iron out all the bugs and implications on the test server first, then announce it ahead of time so people can get ready.. Much better than totally changing the ME in one offseason so that people who have spent years building a team for the way the game used to be don't feel so screwed over.
1) There's too much failure in general, especially with less skilled players. Junior games are the most blatant example of this, they look like 4yr olds with special needs suffering from malnutrition playing blindfolded with a bowling ball on a sheet of ice.
2) When the developers make changes they don't finish the job. The push-then-stop bug for example. They implement this "push" thing, but never fix the bug where players often slow down or stop after pushing. People have been complaining about this since it was implemented, but they don't fix it. Why the **** not? How hard can it be? One mod in the international forum said we need to provide examples because the developers don't know about the bug. Really? It happens 20 times a game. If they don't see that then they're not watching the games.
Maybe that's why they can't design a ME that's actually fun to watch: with less failure on simple passes, a revised shooting/finishing model, more one-touch shots and passes, and a whole lot less stupidity from defenders clearing it out for no reason or wingers in acres of space pushing the ball out of bounds like a defective toddler.
Actually I think some of the recent ME changes were a step in the right direction, the passing model is better, and I like that headers are not so powerful, but they totally screwed the pooch with the weakening of defenders tackling from the front, and some other things.
Pretty much the story with the devs here, they "fix" one thing and break two more.
They would be better served to make one change at a time, make sure they iron out all the bugs and implications on the test server first, then announce it ahead of time so people can get ready.. Much better than totally changing the ME in one offseason so that people who have spent years building a team for the way the game used to be don't feel so screwed over.
Besides the game not resembling anything near real soccer, how about:
1. players unmarked dribbling out of bounds with no pressure on them. Not even a 15 year old would do that, dare I say 12.
2. The high rate of breakaways and the low conversion % of them
3. Players being tackled from behind losing the ball but seldom a foul. Physics says most tackles from behind will involve contact with the player not ball. Those are fouls if not cards.
You can see my other complaints, but the main one is the lack of response from the devs. Game sucks now.
1. players unmarked dribbling out of bounds with no pressure on them. Not even a 15 year old would do that, dare I say 12.
2. The high rate of breakaways and the low conversion % of them
3. Players being tackled from behind losing the ball but seldom a foul. Physics says most tackles from behind will involve contact with the player not ball. Those are fouls if not cards.
You can see my other complaints, but the main one is the lack of response from the devs. Game sucks now.
the worst part is that Sokker is starting to lose the old users.
Agreed. But, that is what new users are supposed to compensate for. In every game, old users leave. Some old timers will stay very long term, though few ever stay permanently. But, new users should fill the gap. That takes something to make playing the game valuable to them. Most every game I play adds something--new graphics, new players training needs, etc. But, most often, the ones that are growing add things that make the game more appealing to new users. Sokker hasn't done that. Additionally, the existing users should be recruiting through their personal networks. IF the game does not appeal to the existing users, then new users will be even harder to come by. Sokker has not continued to be appealing to existing users, and so, no one is "replacing" the old timers.
Remember, I have the advantage of coming to this discussion as a veteran, and a new player--at the same time. Everything under discussion is about keeping the appeal for existing users. If that riddle is solved by the devs (folds hands, prays fervently), the riddle of making the game more appealing to new users must be solved.
Agreed. But, that is what new users are supposed to compensate for. In every game, old users leave. Some old timers will stay very long term, though few ever stay permanently. But, new users should fill the gap. That takes something to make playing the game valuable to them. Most every game I play adds something--new graphics, new players training needs, etc. But, most often, the ones that are growing add things that make the game more appealing to new users. Sokker hasn't done that. Additionally, the existing users should be recruiting through their personal networks. IF the game does not appeal to the existing users, then new users will be even harder to come by. Sokker has not continued to be appealing to existing users, and so, no one is "replacing" the old timers.
Remember, I have the advantage of coming to this discussion as a veteran, and a new player--at the same time. Everything under discussion is about keeping the appeal for existing users. If that riddle is solved by the devs (folds hands, prays fervently), the riddle of making the game more appealing to new users must be solved.
I disagree, but not to the extent of what you are saying, but what proves to be a poor business model. You want to keep the older users, yes there is a natural attrition, but still someone who has been with you for 5 years is more likely to stick than 90% of the new users. Businesses lose sight of these. The most important thing for a business to do is get customers (and in the case of SK plus is recurring revenue), but most lose sight of this trying to get new ones. It is a lot easier to keep someone who has said yes to a sale then someone who is along for free. They have no skin in the game if they are not paying for plus.
But what SK has done is alienate the guys that have been here in hopes of adding new users. I bet 8 out of 10 who sign up never come back for their team, and of the 2 that stick one is gone after the first or second season because they are tired of playing BOTS or are getting killed if they got put in a B league with veterans. It is a business model that has ruined SK both in practice and in functionality.
But what SK has done is alienate the guys that have been here in hopes of adding new users. I bet 8 out of 10 who sign up never come back for their team, and of the 2 that stick one is gone after the first or second season because they are tired of playing BOTS or are getting killed if they got put in a B league with veterans. It is a business model that has ruined SK both in practice and in functionality.
A new viewer shouldn't have changed the ME, which wasn't broken. I am SO fond of seeing my superdivine players passing backwards, let me tell you.
I have coached 9 year olds who when no one is within 20 yards of them do not kick the ball out of bounds, yet I have 26 year old defenders (who are highly skilled) panicking on their first touch and driving a ball into the stands with no offense player in view on the screen. Superdivine or not a kid in house league team wouldn't do that.
I think you and I may be saying the same thing...just using different words. Let me see if i can say my part better. I can see your point about focusing on the new users...but what they created didn't really even do that. My last line said IF they solve the riddle of appealing to existing users, then they should solve the riddle of appealing to new users. In this case, I think they epically failed at attempting both at the same time. New users are looking for flashy things, which the new viewer is supposed to provide. While it's cool, it's not that usable, really. In the meantime, they instituted a new ME that exiting users find nothing but incomprehensible, frustrating and useless. What the devs don't seem to grasp is that existing users are the best advertising for new users. They have to figure out how to satisfy "us" in order to best reach newbies--especially newbies that will stay.
It seems to me like they could serve both interests, retain current users and attract new ones, if they would have just gotten rid of the things about the ME that drove pretty much everybody up the wall.
Instead I think the recent changes, the 3d viewer and the dumbing-down of tactics, seem like really short-sighted attempts at making the game more "popular" and attract the HT crowd (my speculation of course, but it's an educated guess).
It would have been a monumentally stupid path to take even if they'd done it well, but they can't even manage to sell out without screwing up along the way.
Serves them right that users are leaving or not paying plus anymore, there's no developer presence on the public forums and no evidence they listen to anything that their paying customers are asking for. Managers have been complaining for years about defenders kicking it out for no reason but I never heard anybody say "we really need to make it harder for defenders to tackle from the front, guys who position their defense well have too much of an advantage." LOL
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Instead I think the recent changes, the 3d viewer and the dumbing-down of tactics, seem like really short-sighted attempts at making the game more "popular" and attract the HT crowd (my speculation of course, but it's an educated guess).
It would have been a monumentally stupid path to take even if they'd done it well, but they can't even manage to sell out without screwing up along the way.
Serves them right that users are leaving or not paying plus anymore, there's no developer presence on the public forums and no evidence they listen to anything that their paying customers are asking for. Managers have been complaining for years about defenders kicking it out for no reason but I never heard anybody say "we really need to make it harder for defenders to tackle from the front, guys who position their defense well have too much of an advantage." LOL
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Does anyone still pay for plus here? I ditched it awhile back and come on much less often.
The ME continues to deteriorate, I just don't get it.
The ME continues to deteriorate, I just don't get it.