Onderwerp: To sell or train...

new teams.. and transfers of less than 50k shouldn't be taxed.. being able to use the TL was a really fun part of the game.. now it's gone. so less fun, makes it trickier to get new players to stick around. The TL market used to be a really cool part of the game. it no longer is.

My fans will eternally be madly in love with their management! :)
They love winning.. and we plan on providing much more of that.. !!

That's good, because that's honestly the point of the change.

Soccer, not daytrade manager ;)

Also, I think it tells you on the page you enter the min bid how much the tax will be.

That's new-ish also.

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soccer management.. part of that job is acquiring players..

and a more active TL makes that more fun.. and easier..

Not sure why or how this idea of 'daytrading' has become a bad word, or how having active players using the TL some how has a negative effect on any other players.. there were always limits on how many players you could buy and sell in a short time period.. no tax is needed for that.. and you can't even trade in the first 4 weeks!! so how does the tax impact your idea of daytrading.. when without them you still couldn't sell in the first 4 weeks.. or 8 league games.. A real soccer manager is able to make moves to improve his team.. replace injured players.. without having to sign such a long and restrictive contract.

it's the exact opposite imo.. more activity on the TL.. better prices, more options throughout the year.. MORE over all players.. more teams to play in league games.. the list goes on.. instead we have a stagnate TL and very few active players.. And less financial reward for selling your trainees.. it's a lose lose in my book.. ultimately the more ways to play. the more players we get, the more of a challenge the game is.. and that for me at least. =more fun and a better game!

makes soccer management.. very one dimensional.. and a bit boring.. and way to easy..

Bad for retention of new managers for sure.
Implementing 2-4 seasons of tax free trading exemption for new teams would fix it.

Problem is that a small group of users was on their own rising the prices of all good 16-19yo players by bidding basically every one of them until the price was not a bargain. They weren't bidding players in tens, but in hundreds, daily and not only the youngsters. Some were even buying 25+ players and then reselling them without any training.

At one point it was close to impossible for a "normal" user to buy a decent trainee because they were pushed out of the market by higher prices (higher due to trader activity).

I don't see a point why someone would have a need to buy a player and then sell him in 2-3 weeks.

And honestly I don't understand why you of all people complain - you bought 14 players in half a year. Trader bought more in one month.

soccer management.. part of that job is acquiring players..

In life soccer management functions around TWO transfer cycles a year. Not 24/7. Summer and winter break. An open market is 'fun' for you because you could camp it, instead of building up the hard way like the rest of us :)

Moreover, for every perceived benefit a new user might get, it'll be tenfold for active older managers who have more cash to throw around. Their idea is to reduce income in the game and create money sinks, but the challenge is doing so in such a way that doesn't hurt newer sides equally.

The only fix new managers need is a better starting point to begin with. I don't see how a temporary tax immunity would help new teams. They will not have the facilities to produce enough positive change in young players to meaningfully profit. Again, you deal with penalizing the new user who maybe logs in once or twice a day. Folks like us who are around all the time are in the vast minority.


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Besides all of this (which we can agree to disagree on), the real issue is how to convince new users to stay. They'd be better served with a much better starting point then they are given now. Give them an 8000 seat stadium and a bit more money (not too much money, as they would spend it poorly). Also, an easier way to learn the game. You know first hand I am almost done working on something (I need to finish it up), but there's only so much we can do. I probably email 2-3 new users who log in more than one day a month, offering to help. it's seldom responded to after read.

that bidding's better for the seller yes?
a bargain for the buyer.. is a bad deal for the seller..

more activity.. and short term traders provide more liquidity in the market.. and ultimately stream line prices.. not the opposite. as you're taking 'deals' when the TL is so slow it's basically dead.. and worthless for sellers. & now they throw an additional tax on everyone! stupid.. IMO.
& I have had injured starters, out for 2-3 weeks.. So in that instant.. there is a reason to buy a player for a short term.

I'm just about making the game more fun.. & better for everyone.. not those complaining about a couple folks reselling players for a profit.. ultimately a team was willing to pay for said player.. And I've never been beat by an active trader.. the game has more depth than that. no reason to sell in short.

I think a wider appeal and more options.. make the game better for everyone! that encompasses the true spirit of being a manager.. not just a coach.
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i'm playing the game you all have created...
Why would i get into some extensive training program for youth.. when the TL has been killed, and i can't make shit for money on it.. I tried the old way when i started.. but then realized these new changes have ripple effects.. And they destroy the training system/ benefits for new players.

& if you want to play the 'hard way' that is your call.. Don't complain after our league matches ;) It's a compitition remember.. not a kumbaya! lol

As a manager and coach.. I was hired to win games.. and do it for as long as possible. period.. That is how every fan on the planet defines success.

and we can certainly agree to disagree..

but new users need something.. regardless of what or where that is addressed.. at 7000 users.. we are no longer a real game.. but more of a small nitch community barley making the game go round.

I wish they would combine the countries. create some real competition. the state of affairs is really a sad one!!
& make a real effort to recruit new players! if that's even possible these days.

but ultimately.. the proof is in the pudding. make all these silly constricting changes.. lose a bunch of players.. and pretend it has nothing to do with the silly streamlining changes.. to me.. it is obvious they are related...
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"as a manager and coach I was hired..." I'm sure the paycheck is solid, mate.

I do agree on your premise, but would expand on it, the Devs need to find more ways for new users to find their niche/joy in this game earlier. The way you and I found our divergent, but still fulfilling, interests in the game.

I play this game because I enjoy the market simulation. I like to buy young cheap players, train them for a bit, and eventually sell them for profit so I can buy better young trainees. my youth school is dumb expensive, and no where near profitable. The only real world soccer I watch is international competitions. So I feel a bit of a duty to provide american youth to the system(4 current U21s came from my school).

But like the rest of the online simulation, its a game for my enjoyment. My ideal trajectory has me becoming a low level ML team at times with a group of 20-21 year olds. In the old structures, where training Pace could train 22 players, around 12 years ago, I basically accomplished that. I hate that the new structure makes me go out and get 30-35 year olds to fill out a competitive team so my finances don't crater. Winning simulated futbol matches online, winning the league or country title means absolutely nothing to me.

As far as the new system goes, teams with less than $xxxxx, or below a certain number of seasons, or below a certain league, should be exempted from this escalated tax system.

The bulk of the changes are focused on the pay-for-play user group dominated by 1st and 2nd league clubs in Europe, mostly Poland. The Devs want to keep those people happy so they continue to collect that annual subscription fee. Growth isn't really the plan. You're right, the game is niche. Niche doesn't expand, it gives the devoted what they want and charges them a little more.

The bulk of the changes are focused on the pay-for-play user group dominated by 1st and 2nd league clubs in Europe, mostly Poland. The Devs want to keep those people happy so they continue to collect that annual subscription fee.

I can assure you those people that you mentioned are mostly NOT happy with the changes and these changes were NOT made to appease them or make their game experience more fun / interesting / easier.

Most introduced changes actually made the life of high level teams HARDER not easier.

Higher wages = they pay the most of the raise
More games & injuries weekly = they pay most to widen their roster
Lowered fan mood / weird expectations = they lose the most on tickets/sponsors when the mood goes down
Extra tax = they can't buy "part-time" players to replace their top players when they get injured

And so on. In fact most changes in recent years influenced high level users negatively.

The answer to question "who they want to make happy with the changes" is simple: NOBODY.
They are making out of sync changes that they think will make the game better. They obviously don't, the game is as messed up as ever and frankly I'm afraid every time they announce they plan any kind of big change.

I agree with all of this re: older users. Their objective is to get money out of the game, in (I guess) the belief that it might level the playing field a little more for everyone.

Many folks think an optional international league might be a better solution, but that's a huge undertaking. Honestly right now I could sell off my team tomorrow, buy a bunch of 16-17 year olds, and sit in A-league with little difficulty (buying a few older players) and tread water. So could anyone.

The biggest deterrent to new user growth is understanding what to do when they start, and keeping them engaged in competition. Starting in USA B league alone is boring. Once you realize you have, at best, one active competitor to go against and a bunch of bots, the desire for continuing to login reduces. When you combine this with a lousy economic starting point and the difficulty of learning the game and wrapping your head around training, it's no wonder the base doesn't reliably grow.

I feel as though this drives up the sale price of players. Less flipper activity results in more demand for a smaller number of desirable players on TL.

I don’t think the reform makes it any harder for new users. Most can’t afford any decent trainees anyway. If someone buys and trains a player for two seasons which is long enough then the 8% tax will be less than what it was before. If you buy a grandpa to use until skills evaporate over time you aren’t selling them for much more than $1.

Yeah, this is why the tax thing didn't bother me much. If you train someone for 4 months the tax is only 12%, versus the 10% it was.

I feel as though this drives up the sale price of players. Less flipper activity results in more demand for a smaller number of desirable players on TL.

Im not sure about that to be honest. Flippers usually concentrate on youths freshly from youth school - they basically bid every possible decent youth every weekend trying to get some for low price and by doing so they raised the average price while also pushing many people out of the fresh good youth market.

Now they can't buy youths all the time because after buying they need to keep them for 10+ weeks so it's impossible for them to flip. Thanks to that it's actually easier to buy good youths for decent price.